South Italy Romano human name

[jjblue1.livejournal.com]

Okay, many could have already heard that Lovino isn't an Italian name, at best it's an Italian surname.
In the belief it could have been an Italian name in the past and that was why it was used for Romano, I've researched about it on all the webs and books about names I could find.
All I was able to find out was that 'Lovinum' (derived by a Medieval variation of a Latin word meaning 'small wolf') had been used as a city name and 'Lovinus' (meaning 'Man from Lovinum') had been used as nickname for a painter. Since it wouldn't be the first time people get their name from the name of a city, I thought it was possible in the past people used it as a name also and I stopped here.

In this discussion however, people poined out that they had met Lovinos out of Italy and that, on English webs, is also reported the existence of the name 'Lovina' (while it's harder to track the name 'Lovino' down, unless they mention it as male form of Lovina), with the meaning of 'mother of Romans'.

Out of curiosity I checked this source.
Lovino/Lovina are English variants of Lavinio/Lavinia, which are Italian names of Etruscan origins.
The Etruscan meaning got lost, the latin meaning is 'person who comes from Lavinium'.
Lavinium (which has disappeared by now and was in the area of Pomezia) was the city founded by Aeneas and named after the woman he married. Since, according to the myth, Lavinia and Aeneas are the ones who gave birth to the ancestors of the first king of Rome, Romolus and his brother Remus but also of Julius Caesar and Augustus, you can stretch its meaning to 'mother of the Romans'.
Now... Lavinia and Lavinio (celebrated November the 1st because there's not a saint with either of the names) are Italians names but, even if still used, not very popular.
In Italian webs and books there's no mention they have/had as variants Lovino/Lovina (which, as far as I know, aren't used in Italy at all), at best we gets as possible Italian variants Lavino/Lavina (which are mentioned in Italian books/webs about names but seem to be used even less than Lavinio/Lavinia). It's possible that those variants fell out of use or, more likely, Lovino/Lovina are variants used by foreigners only.

Still, that's the best explanation about why Himaruya picked up the name Lovino so far.
It's derivated by a name with clear Italian origins, with an assumed meaning that is very interesting and fitting. It also might have ended up on a list of names he might have checked and he might have exchanged it for a name used in Italy.

So, as of now, Lovino is still not an Italian name, just the foreign version of an Italian one but, well, at least it isn't a name he made up or a name with no connection whatsoever to Italy.

Anyone else has suggestions?

PS: I found more info about Lovina since it seems more popular than Lovino. The girl name Lovina is used mostly in English and, in English, should be pronounced as Lahviynah (L as in "lee (L.IY)"; AH as in "hut (HH.AH.T)"; V as in "vee (V.IY)"; IY as in "eat (IY.T)"; N as in "knee (N.IY)"; AH as in "hut (HH.AH.T)"). It is of Latin origin. Lovina is a form of the English, German, and Italian name Lavinia.
Lovina is rare as a baby girl name. At the peak of its usage in 1903, 0.006% of baby girls were named Lovina. It had a ranking of #886 then. The baby name has dropped in popularity since then, and is currently used on a very modest scale. Out of all girl names in its family, Lovina was nevertheless the most widely used in 2009.
The following are English derivates for the name Lovina: Lavena, Lavenah, Lavania, Lavaniah, Lavenia, Laveniah, Laviniah, Lavinie, Lavyna, Lavynah, Lavyne, Lavyni, Lavynia, Lavyniah, Lavyny, Lavynya, Lavynyah, Levenia, Leveniah, Levina, Levinia, Leviniah, Livinia, Liviniah, Louvenia, Louvinia, Louviniah, Lovinah, Lovinia, Loviniah, Lovynia, Lovyniah, Luvena, Luvenia, Luvina, Luvinia and Vinnie.
Warning: None of the overmentioned derivated is considered an Italian name.

---

In Japanese Lovino's name is written ロヴィーノ, which can be translitterated also as Rovino, Robino and Lobino [Uhm... I've been told it's impossible to translitterate ロヴィーノ as Robino/Lobino... forgive me for the mistake, I fail at Japanese] but none of them is an Italian name. If Himaruya wanted to go for a name (and, as far as I know, he used a real name and not a random word for all the other characters) he wouldn't have picked up any of them.

Just in case you're interested Rovino, Robino and Lobino are 3 Italian words.
Lobino means 'small lobe' (lobo + ino). It's however hard an Italian would use it...
Robino means 'small object' (roba + ino). Again it's not usually used.
Rovino might means 'small bramble' (rovo + ino) which again is not usually used or 'I ruin (something)' which, of course, isn't a noun but a verb. The noun 'ruin' in Italian is 'Rovina' and, of course, it isn't used as a name.
Although fans are fond of considering this last idea as the reason behind Lovino's name I think it's much easier Himaruya, as he did for the other characters, went searching for a human name (possibly with an interesting meaning) for South Italy and not for a random Italian world.
Ergo, he either went for Lovino as derivate of 'Lavinio' or with Lovino as derivate of 'small wolf' (it's not so easy to find but, if you're a fan of Italian painters you might find a painter that used it as nickname and find also what it means).

[the suffix ino means little. However when it's added to some words it gives them a 'cute' meaning or imply they're something amazingly small. With others instead it's perfectly normal to add it [es: Tavolo/Tavolino (table/small table)]. It can also turn names into pet names[es: Michele/Michelino (Michele/little Michele). More often than not pet names aren't given names but names used by relatives, friends and, sometimes, co-workers to call you (Actually it's still possible to call someone with a pet name like 'Michelino' or meet someone who had been called 'Michelino' but it's not that common in most cases... it's easier if you're a female... es: Rosa/Rosina, Angela/Angelina)].

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Since someone seems wondering about this... Vargas isn't just a Spanish surname it's also a south Italian surname popular in the area around Caserta. Its origins are from a Visigoth word meaning 'good father'. In the far past Visigoths invaded south Italy as well as Spanish people did much after, so it's unknown due to whom of the two the surname diffused in south Italy (my best pick would be Spain but I might be wrong).
Sure enough, since it's so Spanish sounding and so little diffused it doesn't really feel as representative of Italy.
Many Italians had never heard it and, if Italians never heard it, I guess it's even harder for foreigners to meet an Italian with that surname.
According to the Pagine Bianche (the list of all the Italian telephone numbers) they have 249 Vargas registred.
It could be that Himaruya picked it up because he was searching for something with ties with Spain to reinforce the Romano/Spain connection.

Also... I didn't know about this but I've just found out it seems in Italy we've more than 350.000 surnames and we're among the countries with more surnames in the world... According to some official data, if you pick all the Italian people with the 10 more popular surnames, you would only cover up the 1% of the national population...
If you're curious Italian surnames have assorted origins (people's names, places' names, jobs, nicknames...) and most of them had birth in middle age. The article I've been reading said it's easy to track down from where a person come from if you know his surname... I'm sure this was true in the past but, as of now I'm not so sure it's so easy...

Comments

[fivedayslater.livejournal.com]

(http://media.photobucket.com/image/applause/fishintimber/applause.gif?o=15)

No suggestions, but you get massive amounts of awesome points for the research you put into this.

[jjblue1.livejournal.com]

*blushes very red* Thank you!

[mikazuki-kagami.livejournal.com]

Oooh. *A* Nice theory. I've always wondered about it and because I always draw blank, I'll always tell myself that not everything have to have a reason behind it and perhaps Hima chose it because it's cute. orz

[jjblue1.livejournal.com]

Yes, it drove me insane as well. As italian name I couldn't find it anywhere and it seemed weird he pulled it out from nowhere...

[ichii-lemoncat.livejournal.com]

I think his name coming from a word meaning 'small wolf' is VERY appropriate! (It would try to be fearsome while just looking cute!)

[jjblue1.livejournal.com]

Yes, I liked quite a it the theory of his name meaning small wolf. It was fitting in more than one way (it brought to my mind the myth of Romolus and Remus, twin raised by a wolf) but I fear it's more likely Himaruya chose it because he found Lovino with the meaning of mother/father of the Romans...

[morwen2.livejournal.com]

still no idea..
I admit finding typical S. Italian male names (Ciro, Salvatore, Nicola...) is hard for a stranger, but Himaruya could have easily picked for him names like Giuseppe, Marco, Mario, Giovanni...(between the most common Italian names for guys there is Francesco, but we have already Francis, the same goes for Antonio...)

[jjblue1.livejournal.com]

Yes, I would have also peferred if he had picked up an Italian name instead tahn the English variation of an Italian name that's almost fallen out of use.
Same goes for Feliciano. True, Feliciano exists as Italian name, but it's almost not used anymore. On internet web you can find 'popularity lists' and 'popularity levels' for names. I would have apprecciated if he had checked them before giving to the characters representative of Italy names that aren't used or are nearly not used in Italy.
Was it so difficult for him to name Italy, Italo?
It's not a name I like but... well, undoubtely it's Italian and fitting for the representation of Italy...

[biberss.livejournal.com]

Amazing! :D
Me like you very much dear.

And it's a theory that Sensei did the normal japanese thing and confused L for a R.
Shamelessly taken from Wikia:

Alternatively, Rovino exists as an Italian word, and derives from a tense of the word "rovinare", which means to "collapse" or to "wreck", thus the name literally means "I ruin".


but I like little wolf better.... Much cuter. <3
And if it's an old etruscan name only adds to my fanon that he is older than most of the other countries... :P

[jjblue1.livejournal.com]

^_____________^

Yes, I know of this theory but I fear it requires either that he:
a) decided to pick up not a name but a random Italian word
b) knew Italian to think such a wordplay or, after finding the name in what was likely a book or a web about names, instead than taking the meaning given by the book or web, decided to try it on a translator/dictionary
c) had no idea that foreign names, more often than not, doesn't have a clear meaning like Japanese names have since they derivate from words from other languages and either tried to search for it or tried to believe a random word can work as a name.

Well, technically it seems Italy had birth in South Italy, when the Greeks called the Calabria like that (only much later it spread through all actual Italy). Actually however there's no secure info about when and due to what the name Italia had birth (it could have been used much earlier and the Greeks merely adopted as official namefor that land the name the local population already used) so Romano is definitely the oldest between the two Italies... tehnically he's older than Rome!

[heyheyho.livejournal.com]

I love you for posting this and your investigation.

I think I've heard Rovino (Robino? idk) was a good option too ...?

[jjblue1.livejournal.com]

^__________^

Rovino and Robino (as well as Lobino) are possible translitteration for Lovino's name but not Italian names. If Himaruya wanted to go for a name he wouldn't have picked up any of them.

[jaseya.livejournal.com]

Great suggestions...
Though that last one just makes me think of, "Veni, vidi, vici!" lol (it's Latin, but still...)

[jjblue1.livejournal.com]

Thanks!

Yes, it sounds similar. ^_^

[sciuraamethysta.livejournal.com]

...damn, son, that be research right there. 8I You have infinite internet and cookies from me. I could not be more impressed.

Now, maybe this is just me trying to include good old Grandpa Rome in everything (Classics minors have an OVERWHELMING tendency to do this ID) but with regards to this:

All I was able to find out was that 'Lovinum' (derived by a Latin word meaning 'small wolf') had been used as a city name and 'Lovinus' (meaning 'Man from Lovinum') has been used as nickname.

I could see Lovino receiving his human name, perhaps, from his grandfather, since canonically South Italy and the Roman Empire did coexist for a little while there. So maybe he was originally "Lovinus," which would have sounded normal in Roman culture whereas any of today's normal Italian names would have sounded seriously weird. (Also, I do find the idea of Rome calling him "little wolf" rather cute, even if on the whole he pretty much neglected South Italy as a father figure.)
So when Rome died and as the Roman culture morphed into the Italian culture, South Italy may have altered his name to fit the times better. Hence we would get "Lovino" (since the "o" ending reeks far less of the Roman times than the "us" ending.) And if you want to look a little deeper into it, maybe it was his way of severing ties with his grandfather, or at least trying to. It's a lot to change your entire name, but the name itself does lose a solid chunk of its Roman nature when it moves from "Lovinus" to "Lovino."

...oooooor Himaruya just chose it because it was cute. xD But hey, reading into it is still fun, yes?

[jjblue1.livejournal.com]

^___________^ Thanks!


The problem is it seems the derivation had birth from the Latin that developed in medieval time and that much, much later turned into Italian, and not by Rome's Latin.
Actually, historically speaking, Rome didn't neglect south Italy... Actually for a while north Italy wasn't even considered Italy then later became Italia Annonaria that, as the name says, was in charge of furnishing food to Italia Suburbicaria (south and center Italy).

I don't really know where Himaruya took the idea Rome neglected south Italy, my guess is it can be from the fact that the capital was moved to north for a short while before the Roman Empire feel... but the Empire was also split in two and there was another capital in the other half of the Empire and it wasn't as south Italy was mistreated.
Also the idea that he took Feliciano away when he felt is kind of weird... it's not like north Italy could move and the Longobards created and ruled the kingdom of (north + center) Italy so he was there...
That's true Venice never ended under the Longobards but the same can be said for Sicily, Rome, part of Calabria and Puglia. All those territores remained under the Bizantines so, if you want you can say Rome escaped in the Eastern part of the Roman Empire, but in that case you've to say he brought with himself Veneziano and Romano.
Also the whole Italy being back during the Renaissance time doesn't make much sense. The kingdom of (North) Italy was there during Medieval times as well...

Since it took me a lot of work and researches to find out Lovinus could mean 'Small Wolf' while it was pretty fast to track down 'Lovina/Lovino' (funny enough is easier to find Lovina than Lovino. Lovino is reported as its male variant but, if Lovina was little used I fear Lovino was even less) as English name derivated by Lavinia I fear Himaruya chose Lovino due to the 'mother of Roman' meaning more than due to the 'small wolf' meaning.

Still it could be he found the 'small wolf' meaning anyway... I really don't know until he'll tell us... -_-

I'm glad you had fun! (and yes, 'small wolf' would be an adorable name for Lovino!)

[starshards.livejournal.com]

This whole thing just further confirms why I just prefer to call him "Romano".

I don't like "human names" at the best of times, but "Lovino" always struck me as a very silly one; mostly because the Italians that I knew laughed the name out of the window as soon as they heard it haha.

[jjblue1.livejournal.com]

Yes, Lovino is VERY DEFINITELY not a name that exists in Italy as of now. It feels weird if not wrong to have one of the two characters representative of Italy have a name that's not Italian.
It's already hard enough to accept that Feliciano has a name that's almost out of use and that Vargas is Spanish sounding and exists only in a very small part of Italy...
To have Romano being called with a name that's not even Italian is rather annoying...

[pixelmicrocat.livejournal.com]

I think it makes sense to use an old name or a word with an interesting story behind it rather than search for popular names, considering that the nations names come from very ancient times.

[jjblue1.livejournal.com]

Yes, it makes sense, though it definitely feels weird to see one of the Italies named with a name that doesn't exist in Italian. Also, being Lovino an English derivation and not an Italian one, it would have been better if he had used Lavino...

[beatrizbear]

A lot of the names Himaruya picked don't make sense. However, I think someone once said on a forum that he was pressured to give his characters human names and that's why some don't make sense. Isn't Vargas a Spanish surname?

[jjblue1.livejournal.com]

It's also a south Italian surname popular in the area around Caserta. It's origins are from a Visigoth word meaning 'good father'. Visigoth invaded south Italy as well as Spanish people so it's unknown due to whom the surname diffused in south Italy (my best pick would be Spain but I might be wrong).
Sure enough since it's so Spanish sounding and so little diffused it doesn't really feel as representative of Italy. It could be however that he was searching for something with ties with Spain to reinforce the Romano/Spain connection.

[vysnia-cerasus.livejournal.com]

You are AMAZING *o*

Thank you so much for making this post and sharing your finds! It's interesting to see that Himaruya might have had some sort of inspiration for Romano's name after all (now if he put thought into it or not is another story XD).

I love these name etymology posts that the community has been doing lately, they're fun. So technically "Lovino" would be more appropriate as "Lavinio"...well, it makes sense. Because, on a semi-OT note, Hungary's human name translates out to "Elizabeta" (Himaruya uses separate characters for "v" and "b", but it seems to be agreed by some Hungarian fans that he messed up the katakana and meant for her to be "Erzsébet". Elizabeta does exist as a name, but it's more Slovene and Croatian and not quite Hungarian.

Thank you once more! I appreciate what you've done. It probably makes a lot more sense than him going with "Rovino" after all, though it's fun to look into the etymology and usage of that too :D

[jjblue1.livejournal.com]

*blushes very red* Thank you!

Well, he tried to find names for all the characters and athough some can seem more or less fitting than others maybe he didn't really picked them up at random but give them sme thoughts...

Yes Lavinio would be Italian and would have an interesting background behind itself. It would have also be easy for him to mess Lavinio with Lovino in his search, explaining why he ended up using Lovino instead than Lavinio (or Lavino which is an Italian derivate for Lavinio). Yes, I've heard about the problem with Elizabeta's name... I think it's possible something like that had happened for Lovino's name as well.

^______________________^ I'm glad you found interesting what I wrote!

[happygaylord.livejournal.com]

I think I read somewhere that Rovino is an italian name... And that it was probably that Himaruya was aiming for... But I don't know... ^^' (Considering how "good" japanese are R and L)


The research you've gone through is impressing! : )

[jjblue1.livejournal.com]

Rovino isn't an Italian name, you can find it as surname or as Italian word.
Anyway I've added an explanation about Lovino's possible other translitterations to cover up everything.

^_________________^ Thank you!

[kara2992.livejournal.com]

First off, you're amazing! Such research, it's impresive! :0
And I'm kind of glad someone remembered Etruria ;u;

I do have heard Lovino as a surname (as well as Feliciano, too), but never as a name. As being maybe other misspelling, I don't really think he would have gone just for a maybe-not-so-random word... But who knows.
I didn't know that Vargas was that uncommon in Italy, either. I knew it wasn't as used as in Spain and Latin America, but not like that.

Gah! Sorry for the incoherent comment, I can't think right now ;7;
However, Awesome research again! :D

[jjblue1.livejournal.com]

*blushes* Thank you!

yes, Lovino and Feliciano can be also surnames. If I don't remember wrong Lovino should also be popular as surname in south Italy so this could have lead Himaruya to believe the English name Lovino was also used in south Italy...
Well, Vargas is clearly not very Italian sounding... and many surnames that hadn't been Italian sounding had been Italianized in the past so it's possible Vargas had been turned into Varga or other variations (Verga for example, like the famous south Italian writer).

It's also possible that there are more Vargas but they are using a cell phone instead than having a phone at home so they aren't listed or they had asked their datas not to be shared in the net for some reason so actually they can be much, much more though I won't bet on them being enough to allow me to say the surname is popular.

Thank you!

[anubismito]

Actually Robino is ロビーノ, and Rovino is ロヴィーノ.
It's more probable translitterate the B as V, but I've never heard of it in vice versa.

I liked all the theories, especially the one that mentions Romulo and Remo.

I still have in my mind th sad theory of a pun with the word Rovina (Ruin) of Italia. Rovina is the ruin; Rovine is the plurar of ruin (ruins). Rovinare is the verb to ruin, to collapse. Rovino is "I ruin / I collapse". And I think it kinda makes sense with Romano's personality. Also, Rome is full of ruins...

Also, If it could be a transliterarion with B (Lobino / Robino). I just think, in the case Lobino, could come from the word "Lobo" in Spanish means Wolf. Even thoough in Italian is Lupo.

And Robino is a surname, but It could work for a diminutive of the name Robertino (derivated from Roberto). But it isn't common at all... I just meet only one Robertino in my life xD (Name that could also work as diminutive of Roberto).

Vargas is Castilian actually, they could use it in South Italy, but the origin was in Castile, in the Madrid Ville in the year 1085. And it was a nobel title that was given to the Honorific people from Madrid. (Sorry, my english sucks ^^U I got the info here http://www.misapellidos.com/ver_datos.phtml?cod=13871 )

[jjblue1.livejournal.com]

Ops, you're right, my mistake. Since I've happened to have seen many times b exchanged for v and viceversa I reported the writing but I didn't really check if it allowed the exchange between the two letters. Shame on me.

You've it wrong. 'Io rovino' normally means 'I ruin something' not 'I'm the thing that's ruined'. It would means that Romano is damaging something not that he's damaged. Using it to mean he's the one ruined is possible but the sentence would usually be rather different (Io vado in rovina, io mi rovino, io sono rovinato, io rovino su me stesso).
The theory of the pun could work if Himaruya knew Italian. Withou knowing it, it would be hell to come up with it beforehand. Much, much easier to check on a book about names.
An Italian wouldn't have suggested it either because in Italian it sound absurd.
The best an Italian would have suggested is Lazzaro which have a cool real meaning but sound like the Italian word to mean you're a slacker, which Lovino is.
It's not overly common in Italy (probably due to the fact it sounds like slacker) but it at least exist.

I think I've explained this to someone else in the other discussion.
In correct Italian the diminutive of Roberto is Robertino. It's also possible and used to shorten Roberto or Robertino in Robi.
Robino doesn't exist in Italian however Italian grammar doesn't forbid you from making up your own pet name for your child or lover. So if someone wants to use Robino, Bino, Ino or whatever else would come to his mind he can. Just keep in mind you (or someone else) have made it up and that it's not a recognized Italian name.

Now... this would require Himaruya to pick up Roberto or Robertino and come up with a personal way to shorten it. Again I find this a bit hard.

As far as I know the Italian Vargas derived from a Visigoth word. The web you mentioned offered more than one meaning from Vargas so it's also possible the Italian Vargas have a different meaning from the Spanish one.

[talis-art.livejournal.com]

You. You are amazing. /worships

[jjblue1.livejournal.com]

Thank you!

[anekisee.livejournal.com]

very detailed research. I never knew any of what u've wrote before this, except Lovina is also name of one of beach at Bali Island.

[jjblue1.livejournal.com]

Thank you! Oh, that's interesting! (though I hope it isn't the reason due to which Himaruya chose Lovino as a name... Italy isn't really connected to Bali... ^_^;;;;)

[ex-veralya.livejournal.com]

You wrote everything , so there's nothing I could add XD
Well done , you're amazing ♥
Ah, even if Antique Lavinium doesn't exist anymore, here in Italy, there is still a little fraction of Anzio's municipality,called "Lavinio", and it's far 50 km from Rome, and it's a tourist place where people spend holiday.

PS: where I live, there are a lot of people with surname "Vargas"! =D But yeah, it's a surname well-known only in Campania ♥

[jjblue1.livejournal.com]

^___________________^
Thank you!
Yes, I 've heard of it. It shouldn't be in the same place as the original Lavinum was, if I'm not wrong, but it should be a cool place for holidays...

PS: that's cool, more Vargas in Italy! At least it's not so little used. Though again I wish Lovino and Feliciano had more Italian sounding names and surnames...

[krystal_tsuki]

*___* WOW!
mi piacerebbe poter aggiungere qualcosa a questa tua mirabolante ricerca (sei davvero così interessante da ascoltare *o*) ma credo che anche facendo ulteriori ricerche non si riuscirebbe a trovare niente di più di quello che hai trovato te ...
In particolare ho trovato interessante, oltre alla derivazione da "piccolo lupo", di come possa essere anche un derivato di Lavinio ... e a sua volta di Lavino ...
Complimenti davvero per tutta questa interessantissima ricerca ...! sei ... amazing XD! ^^

Oddio ... non pensavo ci fossero dei Vargas sulle Pagine Bianche XD! ahah complimenti per l'intuizione!

[jjblue1.livejournal.com]

*arross* (Grazie!)
Forse, se qualcuno sapesse il giapponese potrebbe avere ccesso alle fonti da cui Himaruya può avere tratto quel nome ma in questo caso io purtroppo non sono la persona a cui chiedere... -_-
Mi fa iacerela mia piccola ricerca sia risultata interessante!

Ebbene sì, ci sono! Oramai siamo tutti schedati dalla rete!