[Headcanon Discussion] How old are the nations?

[inner-wings.livejournal.com]

How old do you think the nations are? I don't mean their 'human' ages. I mean how long have they actually been around? Himaruya gives some rough estimates sometimes, but let's get more specific. Since the origins of nations aren't really defined in canon, what do you think about this? When were they each 'born'? Did a historical event or something else trigger it? China is old, but just how old? Did America exist before England showed up in the New World? How much of an age gap is there between the Kievan Rus siblings...and when did they first appear? At what point in history did the Italies pop up? Discuss~

And as always, be respectful when discussing.

Comments

[coraltum.livejournal.com]

I'm really liking the Nordics for quite some time now, so their ages I can pretty much give an inkling of off the top of my head.

I know Denmark was formed in the Middle Ages, I think? Sweden was in the 15th century. Norway was like a century or two later. Finland gained independence near the end of the... 19th century? And Iceland, the youngest, only got their independence at the beginning of the last century.

But if I made a huge mistake with those (and I'm pretty sure I might have), I'd like someone to correct me, pronto.

[kainoliero.livejournal.com]

Iceland was independent in the medieval times though, and Finland had a national identity long before we had independence. I've a feeling it's sort of canon that a nation exists from the moment it's aware of itself, iow has a national identity - like how baby America existed long before he was independent.

[radittz.livejournal.com]

From what I know Poland as a nation existed from VIIIth century or longer(it's hard to tell when Slavs were separated, I hate that they aren't related in APH), but in every book there is a date of 966 when Piast dynasty adopted Christianity. I wonder why in Hetalia he's one of the youngest characters but it fits him.

Lithuania has much more interesting story behind his birthday date XD Two years ago there were celebrations of Lithuania's millenium. People connect it with first written mention of their country's name. It was in a German chronicle:
"[In 1009] St. Bruno, an archbishop and monk, who was called Boniface, was struck in the head by Pagans during the 11th year of this conversion at the Rus and Lithuanian border, and along with 18 of his followers, entered heaven on March 9th."

So yeah, probably Poland is 966, Lithuania is 1009.

[daegaer.livejournal.com]

In the 14th century-setting strip where he and Lithuania, erm, Jadwiga and Jogaila ;-) get married, though, he tells the story of the Wawel dragon, and talks about his king killing it - Krakow is first mentioned in documents in 966, but as an already prosperous city, so Poland in older in the manga than his official birth date! (Perhaps, seeing as he's a like, totally pious nation, he prefers to celebrate the anniversary of his baptism!)

And I now have a great desire to write about Lithuania punching St Bruno :-)

[whittertwitter.livejournal.com]

I'll just address the nations you mentioned in your post, as I probably should do my homework.

Himaruya has stated that China is four thousand years old...but, I imagine him as being only a little over two thousand years old. I'm not sure exactly when he would have been "born", but I imagine that he reached adolescence during the Warring States Period (476-221 BC) and then became the nation representing China as a whole with the start of the Qin Dynasty (221-206 BC) after subduing his siblings. (His parent was the representative of China as a whole from the Xia Dynasty (c. 2100 - c. 1600 BC) to the end of the Spring and Autumn Period (722-476 BC).)

In a word, "yes". To elaborate, America and Canada have existed since the Nordics (and Finland) first landed on the shores of the New World...however, as they promptly left, the little ones were on their own until nations started showing up again during the Age of Discoveries.

I had a nice, well-planned back story for the Kievan Rus' siblings thought out...and then some chucklehead went and changed the dates in Wikipedia before I could write them down. [le sigh] I imagined they were each a principality of Kievan Rus'--Ukraine was Galicia-Volhynia, Russia was Vladimir-Suzdal, and Belarus was Polotsk. They originally had many more older siblings, and an uncle/aunt (Novgorod Republic), but they were all dead after the Mongol and Tatar invasions. They all appeared at about the same time, in the late 9th century A.D.

The Italies, I'm still not sure about. I'm trying to decide whether the Italian regions were "born" before or after them (leaning toward "before"). From a line spoken by HRE, they've been around since the tenth century at least.

[yaoi-queen.livejournal.com]

My guess is that they're all pretty damn old. I think Yao's supposed to be like 4000 years old or thereabouts. Yet he looks like one of the youngest. XD

This is a very hard topic to discuss because we'd all have to assume the circumstances of their "births". I think America had been around long before England, France, and Finland showed up in the new world. There is a common theory that the nation-tans came into existence because that particular landmass and/or boundary had enough people to establish a form of identity. You have to admit, though, that the personifications don't have much power or say-so in anything that goes on in their nations. It's like their existence is an enigma all in itself. They don't really serve a purpose, except to say "Oh, look, I'm "blank" nation." So the real question is why they were born in the first place.

Then again, considering the series, they were probably just born for our amusement. XD

So, in conclusion, it's hard to really pin-point a nation-tan's age. Too many things to factor in and, in the end, it would all be based on opinion until Hidekaz reveals his own headcanons. Till then, they're all simply "old as hell" to me. ^^

Mama Egypt and Turkey--most probably

[m-dono.livejournal.com]

It depends on what you mean, but I'll take your question based off civilization.

Now, let's pretend that the APH Characters don't exist. China dates back to the Xia dynasty about 2,100 BC (about 4,100 years ago). The Egyptian civilization dates back to 3,150 BC (about 5,150 years ago) when upper and lower Egypt were unified under the first pharaoh. This would make Egypt older technically--Ancient Egypt at least.

From what I've gathered from the history profs over time, Ancient Egypt would be the eldest known recorded country in the world--civilization-wise--Greece, China, and Rome (who at the time was an empire) following after respectively. And then Egypt fell and a new Egypt rose from it. Long story short, Egypt came first, died first, then lived again.

As for which country is older as a character from APH, I'd say Turkey's the oldest living APH character whose form which did not change--save for physical age--since the Ottoman Empire, which was around alongside the Roman Empire.

So look at it this way: Mama Egypt was the eldest, Mama Greece was her friend and slightly younger than her, China is close to the same age as Mama Greece. Grandpa Rome is slightly younger than China and Mama Greece. And Turkey was a teenager when they were alive (minus China). Both China and Turkey outlived them all.

Note that APH characters and the civilizations themselves are completely different so my description might be vague, if so tell me and I can explain better c:

Re: Mama Egypt and Turkey--most probably

[moonman422.livejournal.com]

Well if we were talking out of the context of APH there is also ancient Mesopotamia which was also around at the beginning of written history but was also said to have become somewhat urbanized around 5300 BCE and is seen as the beginning of western society by many. It's hard to say when it fell though because it had many different eras... If Mesopotamia was in APH context they would likely be the parent or grandparent of Turkey or the Ottomen Empire. So Ancient Mesopotamia would a been one of the oldest nations around, maybe the same age or slightly older than mama Egypt.

[seraphoftales.livejournal.com]

It would appear to be so... I mean for America...hnnngh, I'm forgetting my U.S. history but the whole Swedish settlements in the new world before Netherlands decided to take over... that was in the late 1600s-early 1700s right? So that was when America was more or less first sighted. Ang geez, how many skirmishes did England and France have over the New World anyways? The only one I know of is the French-Indian War, but was that the one that gave England total supremacy of the Atlantic seaboard???

aaaaargh...

As for the Rus siblings... Ukraine might've gotten her start with the first batches of Slavs that migrated to her place around the 6th century A.D. or the Rus Khaganate... But then in that case, Russia would be born around the start of the Rurikid Dysnasty and Belarus was born just as the Kievan Rus was formed?? uuuuuurgh...

China is 5000 years old, starting with the Three Kingdoms. That's my headcanon at least

The Italies are hard... on a side note jjblue made a great piece on welding together canon and actual historical facts... XD

Mama Egypt and Turkey might be the eldest--can't really say when/where/how they popped out

[m-dono.livejournal.com]

It depends on what you mean, but I'll take your question based off civilization.

Now, let's pretend that the APH Characters don't exist. China dates back to the Xia dynasty about 2,100 BC (about 4,100 years ago). The Egyptian civilization dates back to 3,150 BC (about 5,150 years ago) when upper and lower Egypt were unified under the first pharaoh. This would make Egypt older technically--Ancient Egypt at least.

From what I've gathered from the history profs over time, Ancient Egypt would be the eldest known recorded country in the world--civilization-wise--Greece, China, and Rome (who at the time was an empire) following after respectively. And then Egypt fell and a new Egypt rose from it. Long story short, Egypt came first, died first, then lived again.

As for which country is older as a character from APH, I'd say Turkey's the oldest living APH character whose form which did not change--save for physical age--since the Ottoman Empire, which was around alongside the Roman Empire.

So look at it this way: Mama Egypt was the eldest, Mama Greece was her friend and slightly younger than her, China is close to the same age as Mama Greece. Grandpa Rome is slightly younger than China and Mama Greece. And Turkey was a teenager when they were alive (minus China). Both China and Turkey outlived them all.

Note that APH characters and the civilizations themselves are completely different so my description might be vague, if so tell me and I can explain better c: And so sorry for constantly reposting, I keep noticing mistakes in my comments @_@

Germany

[makikoigami.livejournal.com]

I pretty much imagine Germany to be one of youngest, being "born" in the 1820s or around that timespan, so that he would appear a young teenager around the revolution in 1848/49. And then he had a growth spurt and in 1871, when the German Empire was founded, so that he appeared as 18 years old...

Yeah, I put too much thought into it. That's why the explanation is so short. XD

Re: Germany

[schwubdiwuppxd.livejournal.com]

It's right that you can say Germany was "born" after the defeat of Napoleon with the congress of vienna 1815 as the german confederation or already in 1806 after the dissolution of the holy roman empire as the "Rheinbund". But if you look really, really closely, one can say that the Holy Roman Empire was the first "Germany" in some way ( the german name is "heiliges römisches Reich deutscher Nation"--> Holy Roman Empire of the german nation).

So apparently it's not that easy to say when he was born.... because we often tried to become one (sounds creapy >_<'), but somehow we failed the whole time till Bismarck and Prussia showed up, kicked France and Austria and founded the German Empire in 1871....

thanks to Bismarck and Prussia -.-'

[fairywine.livejournal.com]

Being super-Nordics-obsessive (not to mention OCD on details) as I am, I've devoted a lot of thought to this. Copypasta'd from my fic notes:

"[You could put the Nordics as being around at least by] various parts of the Early Iron Age (0CE-500CE)... There was quite a bit of working around I had to do at various times, especially since the concept of a "Nation" doesn't really exist as we know it by this point. 800 CE marks the start of the Viking Age, so here the Nordics are more like proto-Nations than actual Nations at this point and still in what is technically "pre-history" for them. Just kids, really, which is why their personalities aren't quite as they'll be later. But being as the concept of a "Nation" didn't really exist in the way we think of it at this point, it's more than likely the conditions for "personifications of the land and people" coming into existence were a bit different then than they are now-or rather just not set in stone, given the presence of colony!America."

Explains how China can be 4000 years old while only being 2000 as a political entity. Politics being a part of a "Nation's Existence" is a pretty recent development, methinks. And it's not like Germania was ever a cohesive political body either, yet he was still around too.

Am I thinking too much about this? ~DEFINITELY~. And I'm sure Hima-papa is laughing at us all somewhere, probably while counting his stacks of fangirl-money and being fed grapes by scantily clad harem ladies.

[gerita825.livejournal.com]

Himapapa is Grandpa Rome?!!

[plushielover177.livejournal.com]

Well in canon America doesn't make an appearance until the 16th century, but I guess it's possible he's existed longer.

I personally think he appeared sometime after England chased off Spain, just going by his physical features.

[lai-choi-san.livejournal.com]

Traditionally, France is traced back to Clovis (Vth century) which would mean that France is over 1500.

Canada -as the one we know in Hetalia- is born around 1534 (btw, his name was Kanata) : Matthew is 477.

It is said that Switzerland was born on 1291 (year of the Federal Charter) : Vash is 720 (but many historians think he is a few decades older).

Russia seems to be born around 988 ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kievan_Rus%27 ) , so he is around 1023.

And I'll stop there ! :)

[nodokaotonashi.livejournal.com]

Dunno about France... Some would put him 1168 years old with the Treaty of Verdun, with the beginning of Occidental Francia. But I woudl say he began his life as a nation when the Merovingians came.

[jinsai.livejournal.com]

In regards to Canada and America, I usually approxiamate their ages back to their first official founded colony. For Canada, that's 1605 and for America, that's 1607.

I discount St. Augustine because it was founded as a port and not a colonial settlement, and because it wasn't one of the original 13 that became the United States.

However, I allow the twins could have existed earlier. I like to imagine they popped up together at about the same time.

[pinkabbestia.livejournal.com]

I think that the first time a nation called himself with its name of nation, it was born in that moment.
Well... a population in a certain territory develops a culture, sometimes a language, decides to be a nation other than near territories.
About Norway, for example, it was indipendent (I don't remember when...), then it was conquered by Denmark and 4 centuries later by Sweden, but it mantains its traditions, despite Denmark tried to make Norway forget its culture... Norwegians called this period with a term that recall someting about sleeping times, i can't remember the exaxt term (i know it in italian). Norway "slept" for long centuries but it was always exixted...

Eh, Norway... its territories are dividen into several small indipendent territory before being unified under the same king, but we have got Viking!Norway yet. Can it be possible?

[monokuroka.livejournal.com]

Actually we get a lot of clues if we read the comic strips. As mentioned above, it seems that nations can exist before actually being politically nations. Oh, and I think that the nations physical age mirrors their real age to some extent (China being an exception, but then again, Asians always seem very young-looking to me even tho they'd be kinda old).

Grandpa Rome is still a headache for me. I've always wondered how he still existed when Italia was having "The feeling of Renaissance" and painting with him. Because that would be at least 1300 even thought Rome officially collapsed 330 >_>; Then again, I've told to myself maybe he lived with the power of Constantinople before fully disappearing 1453.(But then again, Rome seems to be a rather active ghost-nation.)

Anyway, regarding to the Chibitalia strips, Italia existed before 1400. That would make him 700+ years old. Same goes to HRE because in the strips, he seems to be around the same age as Chibitalia. Both of their physical age is 20 (IF thought that Germany = HRE).

France and Spain seemed to be older children when bullying Chibitalia. Also, their physical age is older (France 26, Spain 25). In the strips Austria and Hungary are about their age, too. France, being one of the oldest, is probably around 1500(Francia), Spain a bit younger.

Ameica's physical age is 19. He was "officially" found by Columbus in the 1400s (Spain was fishing tomatoes and Finland + others found him) and make him a century or two younger than Italia (20), making him about 600+ yrs old. Because I don't think he was there when the Vikings found America.

And that takes us to the Nordics. Finland's physical age is 20 and Sweden's 21. Denmark, I think, is a bit older than Sweden. England is 23 and he has been shown as a chibi when Chibi-Denmark came to bully him (Viking time) in the 1000s = England around 1100 yrs old.

Omg, my brains are crashing down- anyway I think:
Italy (20), about 700+ yrs.
S.Italy (22-23), about 1000 yrs,
France (26), about 1500 yrs.
Spain (25), about 1400 yrs.
Austria, Hungary, about the same (or a bit younger) as France/Spain.
...what would make Switzerland kinda old, too (the Chibination strips with Austria).
America (19), about 600 yrs.
England (23), about 1100 yrs.
Denmark, around England's age.
Sweden (21), about 1000-900 yrs.
Finland (20), about 700+ yrs.
Greece (omg 27), about 1600 yrs?

... or something like that. It makes SOME sense, even though there are a lot of problems. But I am trying to think by the canon info more than by the real, historical one. I don't think Hima was even trying to be specific with all this... But then there is Lithuania (19). And chibi-Lithuania was around when Hungary was small (if I remember right) so... uh? Also I have no idea about the growth rhythm of the nations (America wtf), so I'm just pondering.

Russia etc. are the interesting ones, I think. Ivan's physical age is canonically Unknown-with-a-purpose 8)

[moonman422.livejournal.com]

I like to think that physical age also has to do with the growth, development of a nation as well as the length of their historical being. For example South Korea's foundation day is all the way back in 2333 BCE yet his physical age is only 15-16. This could be because of this like political issues and what not. Or with the Italies being ruled over for the long time they were ruled over seemed to have hindered their growth. On the other hand as seen in Hetalia, England notes how fast America grows up in the time he was gone. America was a nation that developed in a rather short amount of time and is a superpower today. His age is what it is I guess to show the fast growth but to also say that he is still a very young country with a lack of history as one in comparison to others.

[loegrian-scrawl.livejournal.com]

Welp, it's generally accepted that they come to exist when 'culture' was introduced, I think.
Thus if you want to work on that basis then England would be over 5000 years easily. Culture itself was introduced to to England by at least 2,500 BC, though as a standard it more seems to tie into 3,000 BC when the stone age started, moreover when things such as henges started to be constructed. Personally I have this as his 'proto-nation' stage, with the nation coming at around 43AD which is when Rome first invaded, thus acknowledging him/the country. If you want to go by THIS then he's just shy of 2000 years.
Frankly I've always just dubbed him as about 5000 and made a note that he'd been internationally recognised since about 43AD.

8V

[lai-choi-san.livejournal.com]

it's generally accepted that they come to exist when 'culture' was introduced
It would mean that the proto!France is over 7000 years old ! (the dating results of the oldest megalithic monuments in France are around - 5000 BC). Instead of a proto-nation, in my headcanon, the nation-tan who built the megaliths in Brittany is the father of Gaul and the grandfather of France.

with the nation coming at around 43AD which is when Rome first invaded, thus acknowledging him/the country. If you want to go by THIS then he's just shy of 2000 years.
I tend to think this way too.

[mertseguer.livejournal.com]

I've always thought that nations start counting their age from the moment they become a country, although they exist before that.

For example. America would be 234 years old but have existed for a much longer time.

As for when they would have started to exist, I don't think it is possible to pinpoint an exact date because culture is a very gradual thing.

It even gets more complicated if you consider that the whole concept of "nation" didn't become generally used until the 19th century. So talking about a group of people feeling that they form a nation before this period is an anachronistic proyection.

As for my personal head cannon it tends to adapt a lot around what scene is playing around in my head.

For example, sometimes y draw/write about grandpa Germania being terrorized by his grandchildren (Prussia, Germany/HRE, Netherlands, Austria, etc..) so then they have existed for several millennia. In other settings I imagine most of them appeared around the end of the empire of Charlemagne.
Spain also gets younger or older depending on if I want him to have been raised by Al-Andalus or appear during the reconquista.

Many of the colonial nations did not exist before the European nations landed on their coasts. It depends on the proportion of population that descends from natives and the continuity of their culture (continuity, not revival) So for example America, Canada and Australia didn't exist earlier.

To keep consistency with the existence of the ancient nations, China and Japan are either not as old as Himaruya claims, or all the other nations are also many millennia old.

Assuming Germania represents all the Germanic tribes, not just the west-Germanic ones, the Nordics started to exist around the same time period as the west European ones.

[sara-rojo.livejournal.com]

Spain also gets younger or older depending on if I want him to have been raised by Al-Andalus or appear during the reconquista.

And what about the Roman province of Hispannia? Spain is a particularly tough case, in the sense that the original inhabitants of Iberia (Portugal+Spain) are very old and somewhat organised, then came the Romans and re-named the peninsula "Hispannia", which is the root for the word "Spain", and the language he speaks, and then comes Al-Andalus, but much later...

[shiruvia-101.livejournal.com]

After doing a little research, to verify this, I saw that the Icelanders (Norse) were the first Europeans to land in the area of Newfoundland around 985CE. Around 1000CE the village of Vinland is created and settled for a few decades. After several centuries of being unoccupied by the Europeans, they start to bump into the land of Canada as early as 1420 by Norse, again, followed by the British, Portuguese and the French which leads to the first permanent french settlement in the early 1600's.

So I always had in my head that Canada was 'born' around the period that the Norse arrived and he then joined the Aboriginal people after they left. From then on he would check and see all the other explorers and traders that came unto the land and then joined the French settlers, once they became permanently settled in his land.

I'm not as familiar with the discovery of America as I am with Canada, so it could be taken that he was also 'born' at the same time as Canada and then moved southward or he was 'born' in the 1400's with the discovery by Columbus.

Though many would put America as the older of the two, I would say that it is only in nationhood that he is older not actually being around or alive.

A WILD TEAL DEER HAS APPEARED!!!

[taylorphantom.livejournal.com]

My headcanon dictates that Prussia is as old as the Teutonic Knights, placing his birth year at around 12something and making him about 800 years old. So far, Hima-papa has stated that Gilbert started out as the Saint Maria Order, wich was a German order. This makes me think that Prussia does not represent the older Baltic Prussia, who would have been a seperate tan. The other fact is that Gilbert looks more Germanic than Baltic, he has the same eyes as Germania, Germany and Sweden.

I have strange headcanon that I'm too lazy to explain right now, but let's just say that when the Teutonic Knights were created (his "birth"), Gil would have looked about 10-12. In my headcanon, most nations when they start off are about 3-5 in appearance, but I think that there's some special nations that show up looking older (Rome and Sealand being other examples). I also have a hard time imagining a itty-bitty Gilbert being able to hold a sword and actually fight. Even being 10 he prolly would not have been allowed into battle much, doing more of the "hospital" aspect of the Order. But yeah, Prussia's specialness comes from the fact that he was born as an oder of knights. I think this is really rare in APH, most if not all tans showing up when there is the start of a national identity. I can't remember who else said this, it's not originally my idea, but I like to think that tans are the mix of the present people on the land as well as a bit of magic and destiny. There has to be that possibility of a "something" for them to be born, hence why America existed during his colonization, because he would later become "America".

Re: A WILD TEAL DEER HAS APPEARED!!!

[radittz.livejournal.com]

We often say than Teutonic Knights were an army without a state. It's hard to say when they created their national identity.

Also I'd be very careful about calling Teuton!Gilbert Prussia in any way becouse those people had absolutely nothing to do with old Prussians. Baltic!Prussia should be a separated character (killed in the middle ages by Teutonic Order). I will never understand why those German setlers took their new name after a pagan nation XD

[yaoi-rox-me-sox.livejournal.com]

Because there's the debate between whether they exist as proto-nation or not, I personally stick with when the tribes or the people that come to a land unite to make a single entity. This is the closest you're going to get to a nation way back when.

This places Sweden and Norway at being born around 600 AD and Ukraine at around 250AD-350AD.

Netherlands would have been around 1000AD-ish (I'd have to check again), Belgium a little while after that, and Luxembourg around 950AD.

These are the only ones I know at the moment since I just yesterday looked into it.

[realityhelix.livejournal.com]

I always figured Ukraine came about with the Scythians.

My headcannon gets a bit convoluted in that I separate England and Brittany into different entities, but I do not separate Canada and America from their native peoples. I hold that they were there the entire time, but were both very good at moving and changing with the times. Hence their physical appearences. I also think that the nations can sort of age very strangely. So you can have Latvia, who still looks like a child even after hundreds of years, and have America and Canada practically fully grown after just two centuries.(England was surprised at how fast he grew!)

[lai-choi-san.livejournal.com]

My headcannon gets a bit convoluted in that I separate England and Brittany into different entities.
I assume you mean Britain ?

[lovelycudy.livejournal.com]

I have only thought about England and France, tbh.

I think France is Roman Gaul, so he was "born" circa 125 BC. Following the same logic, England is Britannia, so he appeared in 55 BC. Before them there was Gallia (who would have been around since the Iron Age) and Albion (the same). So I say England is slightly over 2000 years old and France is around 200 years older than him.

[lovelycudy.livejournal.com]

I like to think that Gallia and Albion were siblings.

[nodokaotonashi.livejournal.com]

Unlike some, I don't think at all nations date back when culture emerged. Again, nations are the result of a common feeling of fraternity between people who speak the same language and share the same culture. Or else, Italy would have merged with Rome. It's not very logic, in my opinion. Let me put simply this in words : if France was Gaul (the Celtic one), it means he was conquered by Rome, then switch his main language to Latin ? I bet that was the reason why Mamas states were created.

Talking about Mama States, I think Egypt was born during the Islamic Golden Era since his main language is Arabic. About Greece, this is confusing... It would have been better if Greece and Mama Greece were in fact one entity, but again, modern Greece is different from ancient one. As I heard, China could have been born in -7000 because he's one of the oldest continuous civilizations of the world. That's a bit too much, in my opinion.

I find Turkey very interesting when you must find how old he is. I wasn't a big fan of the "Turkey is Anatolia" theory, I didn't like it at all when I had to read his new profile, especially the line with Japan. I believed Turkey came from Mt. Altaï, along with his brothers and sisters. He began to move from there to finally end in West Asia, in Anatolia to become the Sultanate of Rûm. He then expanded and became the Ottoman Empire and you know what will happen. In conclusion, Turkey would be like... 3000 years old. That woudl explain his physical apprearance. This artist (http://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.php?id=1280991&tag=%E3%82%B5%E3%83%87%E3%82%A3%E3%82%AF%E3%83%BB%E3%82%A2%E3%83%89%E3%83%8A%E3%83%B3) shows my thoughts very well (moreover, her Turkey is adorable <3).

[lai-choi-san.livejournal.com]

Speaking of Turks' origins and the line with Japan in his new profile, here's an interesting map : http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%B6kt%C3%BCrks

Turkey would be like... 3000 years old.
I'd rather imagine that he had a father (or mother) whose name was Turkic Khaganate. Officially, Turkey (the Ottoman Empire) is born in 1299. But he grew up very fast !

RP Account, can't be bothered swapping.

[sweet-as-bro.livejournal.com]

New Zealand is the nation I RP and think about most (as you can probably see from the account I'm using), so NZ's actual age is something I've pondered, and pondered Australia a little bit too. *wonders if this is a wise minefield to wade into*

I'm going with the idea of culture and a sense of identity being what creates a nation, I estimated NZ first coming into being over 600 years ago when his people were developing their own culture and a collective sense of belonging. New Zealand wasn't recognised as an independent nation until May 1836 (when the Declaration of Independence was recognised by Britain) so he's been a recognised nation for nearly 175 years.

As a result I reckon he's older than Australia whose colonies combined to become a nation in January 1901, so he's 110 this year. Australia's oldest state (New South Wales) was founded in January 1788 though, and that's the founding Australia Day is based on. I do believe Australia was around as a being before New South Wales was founded, but wasn't recognised as a nation until Federation.

If I've gotten any of this wrong or if Australia was recognised sooner than that feel free to tell me!

[keatos.livejournal.com]

Haha I was thinking about this. :'D

I can't decide when Korea came around, since real life history sadly isn't so cut and dry as simplified anthropomorphizations. Right now I want to say Korea and his Korean siblings (there needs to be more than just one Korea, both in the past and now) were born in the Three Kingdoms of Korea period (which would place them at 2,068 years old. If that seems too old, he could have been born at the beginning of Goryeo, which makes him 1,093 years old. Goryeo is a unified Korea, however, which makes the case of siblings a bit tricky.

America was born in 1492, making him 519 years old. A significantly older Native America lived in the now United States before he was born. He didn't start thriving until British America came to be, which was 1607 (404 years old).

England was born from the Anglo-Saxon conquests, making him 1,602 years old. His Celtic "brothers" lived there before him with Roman influence.

The Italies were definitely born after the Roman Empire... Sometime in the middle ages. Besides Romano, he'd need to have a many siblings. I can't place a date, although 1,601 years old seems to fit the beginning of the Middle Ages.

Germany as Germany would start at the German Confederation, making him 196 years old (so young!). If we included HRE as his childhood, that'd make him officially 1,049 years old.

We've seen Prussia as the Teutonic Knights, although that fact actually confuses me... It doesn't really seem right. The Teutonic Knights are 821 years old, while the Duchy of Prussia is 486 years old. There's probably a better childhood for Prussia than the Duchy of Prussia, although I dunno who those would be yet.

There aren't any canon countries for the middle east besides Turkey (who is actually a joint European/Middle East country on like every map but whatever), but I think the first nation in the area was Mesopotamia, who is modern day Iraq's mother. As for another part of the Middle East, Israel's parent (dunno what to call him/her yet) originally lived in the area that is now Israel, and had at least two children, those being Israel and Palestine. Palestine is the older of the two, but I don't have a set date for Palestine yet. Israel was born when Zionism first began getting big, which would place him at... 212 years old?

In my headcanon, a nation's physical age reflects how mature the country is. A growing country is a child, an adult country as reached its peak, and country that is middle-aged+ is declining. This doesn't always seem to match the actual canon (why is Latvia so young?), but it MOSTLY seems to work, such as why China looks so young despite being so old. I'm taking into account that Himaruya is no historian, though, so I'm sure a great deal of his designs were more along the lines of "Latvia looks cute as a kid, let's make him one~" rather than something political.

I'm not too good with my ancient history (I prefer my history to be within the last few centuries), so sorry if I've made some glaring mistakes. D:

[mugiwara-san.livejournal.com]

When you think of the Germany how it is now, it's 20 years old.
The German Confederation has mostly been a fusion of several states but was never really one country (even now, after the re-unification, the German states have a quite unique government, Bavaria is still seen as an own nation by almost all inhabitants etc., so you can't really speak of one "Germany", but that's another story).
Since Germany has been parted into West and East after WWII, I don't call it Germany for that 40 years.
This might be just my headcannon, but that Germany how you know it today is 20 years old. :/

.. lol, please excuse me for my bad spelling. *is German*