hetalia | Queston Regarding Scotland

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Queston Regarding Scotland

Hey everyone! I got a question that is very important for a fanfic I am writing.

Would you say that with the Union Act of 1707 Scotland basically destroyed itself (meaning that "Scotland" the "country" no longer exists like the "Roman Empire" no longer exists), or that she just moved in and became a permanent resident of England's house?

I have been doing a lot of research, and I am not sure which one it is because the Scottish people still have their own laws, church, and a few other things, but technically the whole main island of Great Britain is called "The United Kingdom" a.k.a. "England" and Scotland is more like California in the US in that it is not it's own separate state.

It's all kind of confusing. Some say that "Scotland" is no longer her own country (thus "destroyed") and others say that she's just under England's rule and they're trying to get independence so they can be their own nation again but....... AJLASSADJ;L DDD:

Anyone who can give some input or give links to articles that could help me decide between these two will be loved forever and ever!

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I'm Scottish and I live here! Does that count?

We're definitely still our own country; we have a very strong national identity! We're not governed by England, either. And uhhhh

"The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland"?

Great Britain = Scotland, England and Wales. Not England alone; we're all separate countries because we'd kill each other otherwise.

Yes, we're trying to get independence... well, kind of. It's kind of complicated.

[If I've mistaken anything I'm sorry!]

By that I mean Scotland probably has their own house.

/TL;DR

*Scratches head*

Perhaps Scotland became somewhat like the States are to America...

(If you don't really know, here is an explanation of a state)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State

Scotland is a country.

He probably has his own house up in Scotland, and remain Scotland. England just...takes the reigns for foreign policies and stuff, the things that Act of Union contain. England isn't UK/GB, it's just England is in charge of UK/GB. Sort of. It also makes its own tradeoffs for this, but let's not get technical eh.

Ah, you're a perfect insight to this then! *hugs*

Yeah, I've read a lot of that. I guess the best thing to do to stay historically correct would say that until this, Scotland had his own house and then after this, um... merged their houses together into one big condo or something? XD

*nods* Makes sense to me. Kind of. Would it be like a messy, insane family and England is the eldest brother who is doing all of the chores and thus has the most authority?

*rubs chin* This has helped clear up some stuff; but I am gonna agree with what others have said. Scotland has just decided to move in to get England from trying to beat him up all of the time.

The way I understand it is, UK is a big union state of 4 countries including those of Great Britain (England, Scotland, Wales) + Northern Ireland.

So yes, Scotland is it's own country and has it's own house. Though you could say UK(as a character) has a REALLY big house that's like 4 houses put together, including Scotland's house. (though the character itself is largely a representation of just England)

I guess the misconceptions stem from that fact that England is pulling the strings in UK, which is also why I think although in Hetalia his "official" name is UK, the character is largely represented as England. It doesn't help that the character's name in Japanese is often used to mean England or Great Britain.

Nah, Scotland is the big brother who bullied his little brother. (See also : Battle for America strips) England is like the younger brother...middle or youngest, I have no idea...who grew up to kick his brother right back and take his car keys. Except he's also got to pay for the petrol that car uses. Among other things.

RLwise I'm not sure if saying England has authority is right because it's sort of like...England doesn't have his own government anymore, but his government became the government of Britain? Sort of? It's a bit complicated. But for the sake of Hetalia systems, yes, he probably has the most authority that counts.

Well, Scotland was never merged with England, so I don't know if they'd just have one massive house for the UK... ~~Scotland would be the worst roommate ever~~ but yeah, I think something like that would probably be fairly accurate.

I think they all have their own houses and they meet up in England's house to make important decisions. Or somewhat. I dunno. It's your story. xD

Actually, in one of the strips with kid!England, he always has to run away from his big brothers who keeps shooting arrows at him...

Haha, yeah, I have to agree that Scotland did kick him for a bit... and then got beaten like heck right back. Ah well.

But thanks for all of the information. :)

*laughs* We should have a poll or something where we say, "This is how we envision this country!" because on DeviantART alone, there are three or four different version of Scotland there. And then some more on fanfiction.net, and of all of them, I think mine is the only girl.

But I digress (blame the coffee).

I guess they would have a big house or something or other. Thanks!

*ponders*

I guess England is the youngest of all those guys. But one has to wonder why his brothers hated him so much. *plots*

Yeah, I think that is the general explanation (so wish we had more than nine weeks to study government, and not just American government).

Misconceptions are buggers, huh? Thanks for helping to clear this confusion of mine up!

England is like the younger brother...middle or youngest

Definitely the youngest one. Both, historically-wise and in hetalia (note how happy he was to be a niisan for the first time when he found little America) :3

Late as ever, but just a note: in Hetalia, Scotland is a "he." ^^;; He's one of England's older brothers.

I agree with those who say Scotland is still around and is his own country so has his own "house"... and it's just me but I think that house is far, far away from England's, seeing that their relationship is not particularly warm (at least he hated England when he was small and I don't think that changed a lot xD;; ). Also, I think England "is" the UK simply because historically he's the strongest and most dominant.

Well... supposing that England was born during the Saxon invasion and settlement, it's little wonder that his brothers have hated him since day one. Basically, his is what it was like for the native Britons: "The barbarians drive us to the sea; the sea throws us back on the barbarians: thus two modes of death await us, we are either slain or drowned."

By the time it ended the southern and eastern parts of the island were completely conquered by the Saxons and the Britons were pushed back significantly (as seen here (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ee/Britain_peoples_circa_600.svg)).

I would say separate houses with meetings at England's place. That's just from a Scots point of view though.

When you listen to the news here it always say's "blah blah... will be starting in England and Wales next week." It never seems to involve Scotland so in that sense, you could say in Hetalia terms, England and Wales get on better or something along those lines.

We deal with a lot of things differently, for example we were the first to ban smoking in public places with England and Wales waiting to see what happened. That could be an example of Scotland being the 'older' brother but that's just my opinion again.

Personally I can't wait to see what is done with Scotland when he finally appears. I am waiting for some Roman Empire and Scotland interactions. Sometimes it's good being uncivilised with our Gorilla tactics :)

Hope this helped in some way and I am not just babbling ^^;;;

My best description is
Scotland is to England what Canada is to America.
Connected. speak English...and that's it.

I could see him with his own house or living with England and constantly taking the micky... He'd be older too, considering the Romans build a 4 foot wall to keep the Scots out of England because we're too feral for them to take over >.>
He could even be a bossy older brother. Wether or not England listens to him is another thing.
As far as I know Scotland's never had any interest in controlling England, but like any older sibling just wants England out of his room.

I live in the UK.

I'm just expanding upon what ET and

feiminn have said.

It's a very, very common mistake to think of Britain as being England, but it most certainly is not. Scotland, England, Northern Ireland and Wales still very much have their own national identity as well as, to some extent their own languages, though it is not particularly common for the Scottish to speak Scottish, or so on, in every day, average life.

Additionally as well, asides from some inter-breeding over the years, the Scottish and the English are a different race altogether- the Scottish being Celt, and the English being Germanic. The differences are not particularly apparent due to marriage and migration between the two countries, but I'm fairly sure that recent DNA studies have proven that there is still a difference between the English and the rest of the British nations.

So no. Scottish culture was never assimilated into English culture, and all nations of the United Kingdom still hold very firm to their national identity- to the extent that all nations of the UK (and yes, that includes England too) have at least some public support for a breaking apart of the union and reclaiming independence.

However, since the English make up for some 84% of the population of the UK, and are the wealthiest nation among the four that make up the UK, we have come to pretty much represent the UK.

It's annoying, since it effectively robs us of our own national identity and replaces it with 'British', but we can see this translating into Hetalia by way of Arthur being England -as we can see in pre- 1707 strips- and so now, standing as the representative of the UK as opposed to being the UK.

You bring up an interesting metaphor, but unlike the US and Canada, we are far more connected due to the fact that together we are a single state, and alone we are not acknowledged as one.

We live in a sort of... awkward harmony.

|D;;

It's a very, very common mistake to think of Britain as being England

I think most people are aware that it's not the case but since England has represented Britain for hundreds of years now, many languages use "England" to refer to the entire UK in colloquial speech - or, in Japan's case, vice versa, as "igirisu" is "UK" but it's often used to refer to England as well.

Aaah, I see. Okay.

*"has been representing." I know English, damn it! I really do!

...

That was fine. I speak American English, which is certainly different from British English, but the tenses and such were correct, and it worked in there.

You could argue that the Union happened as soon as James the VI (of Scotland) was asked to come down to England and rule there (as James the I) after the death of Elizabeth. I'm pretty sure he did try and get an act relating to the Union past but it was knocked down.

Anyway considering that the ruler who pushed this act was Anne Stuart, you could also say that it was Scotland's choice to 'take over' England ~~no big freaky eyebrows from Scotland like the rest of his brothers xD~~. I'm sure it was either her or her sister Mary II that had the act passed that prevented any Catholics from taking the throne, literally stopping any other children their father James II (a Catholic who was forced off the throne for being a prat) had from becoming King, which was how the crown was passed to the Hanover family after Anne's death. It also haunted them through the Jacobite wars as it completely divided Scotland in various ways (heck, some towns in Northern England where fighting for Bonny Prince Charles while towns from Highland Scotland were against, it's that messed up).

Nowadays, while Scotland is still a part of the Union, since 1999 Scotland has devolved into having it's own parliament. It doesn't have control of everything that happens but focuses more on what only Scotland would be interested in.

Curiously, since Labour took over from the Conservatives in the 1997 election; the UK has been run by Scots. First Tony Blair (yes, you heard me) and now Gordon Brown...though Brown is the only one that has really received any complaints because he's Scottish but that might just be down to the current economic climate and the need of a scapegoat.

But, yeah, Scotland's still around. Trying to run two different governments and find a chance to kill America over fucking up his Economic system...again.

Yeah, we kind of do, but my dad (whenever the conversation comes up somehow) always states, "Hey! We're not English, we're Scottish!" So, being an analytical person and more of a history buff than he is, I'm just trying to make it make sense in my head so then that transfers to the stories I'm writing... etc, etc, etc.

*nods* A lot of stuff happened when he was called down to rule England (which is why he is getting a big section in a future fanfic, not to mention Mary's secret contract that bound Scotland to France should she die without having a kid first), and even after that I guess (gonna be doing more research, no worries). Especially on the Jacobite wars.

But haha, really? Awesome. I guess good things do come to those who wait. Although, I hope people back off and don't use him as a scapegoat; we've seen what happens when people do that before.

Haha, thanks. D;; I'm ESL and I should speak perfect English (I was an English major, dammit! >_<) but I spend most of my days translating between two completely different languages and, well. I get confused. ^^;;

Haha, yeah. I've kind of ignored that because personally, I have always seem Scotland a girl, and I have been able to characterize her and her actions through out history a bit easier than I would have if she were a he.

Should do a poll and see what you guys think? I might ultimately stick with her being a girl since I have written stuff already, though. XD

(Must annoy Wales and Ireland... everyone thinking they're England or something.)

XDDDD It's alright really! I hear people who only speak English and sometimes their grammar is awful! I just want to rip out their throats sometimes and shove dictionaries and grammar books to replace their vocal cords. Of course, I make mistakes too, but that's why I'm so picky about how I write.

Oh, I understand that. It's just that I've met people who seriously thought that I couldn't tell the difference... when it's simply the case of "Anglia" (England) being shorter and easier to say than "Egyesült Királyság" (United Kingdom). ^^;; (Well, at least in English I can say "UK"...)

That would be interesting, but it wouldn't have as much insanity as it would if they lived in separate houses. Maybe separate floors?

I think Wales and Scotland get along better because they're more used to each other; Wales was "taken in" by England about four hundred years earlier than Scotland.

But Scot & Roman interactions would be awesome! I read somewhere that when the Roman empire split and they pulled out of England, they "left the Britons to deal with the Scots and the Picts alone". XDDD

(But babbling is so much fun and has a plethora of info!)

DDDD: Jerks. I'd like to see them saying something extra long and hard when there is an easier alternative.

I have to agree that Scotland & England are not like Canada & US. There are still separate borders on a map, and they have different elections and everything that do not effect how our elections are going to go like they most likely would over there.

I will agree with Scotland just wanting England out of his room. XD

Well, Mary's mother was French and she had been sent to France to marry Francis II instead of England's Edward VI so her connection to France were stronger...and quickly cut after her death. The Jacobit wars (especially the one with Bonny Prince Charles) is awkward because of how many other countries were involved, the guy himself was Italian and could speak more Polish than English if I recall correctly...

The Brown thing is frustrating because I'm sure if I was to look up the history of PM there's going to be a lot more Scots...

I suppose you could write Scotland as a girl, but in context of Hetalia that would definitely count as genderswitch/AU. ^^;; Though genderswitches are popular so I don't think anyone would mind... especially as there's already a quasi-official girl!England as well. (As for me, even before Hetalia I've always imagined these countries as men, for some reason...)

(I suppose the relationship between England and the rest of the countries within the British Isles is mostly like this: "I'm Scotland/Wales/(N.?)Ireland! I've nothing to do with England!" "Who cares, I represent you anyway, bwhahahaha! Fear me!" "Argh! Just shut up and go away!")

This, by far, has been one of the most informational comments on this thread. I have read somewhere that genetically they're different still, which is interesting.

But I'm really glad that the cultures didn't assimilate! That would be a real loss if you asked me.

As for the whole "England" and "UK" thing, I think that's pretty historically correct; he didn't become the UK until after he merged with Scotland, and even still, it wasn't as if he was all of those countries in one. Must be kind of annoying for the English too though. Has anyone ever said, "Why are you asking us about Scotland? Go up north and ask them!"?

But buggers; that kind of ruins some angst I had planned in my head. Oh well.

*nods* Other countries do seems to muddle up things far too easily, don't they?

And I am sure too; I once read in a history book where the President's family were from, and quite a few were Scottish & English as opposed to German or something.

Hahaahaha... --; And I wanted to stay in canon too! ;A; But I guess this is okay. I've seen a few avatars of that girl. Her pigtails are cute.

(Yes! I bet that is exactly how it is.)

Hmmm... we sure have a complicated relationship don't we? We hate each other but after all these years we still haven't become independent (although we're trying to become independent now (come on, come on))
I'd say we're our own counrty though. We have diferent laws.
It's so frustrating how people from other countries think that either the whole of the UK is called England or that Scotland isn't part of the UK or whatever, I'm not sure what it is they think. We once had to draw a map for a man in Egypt to tell him that Scotland was in the UK and that England was only part of it. My firend told me yesterday that a guy thought that Scotland was a state in America o_0
I like the idea of them living on different floors. I'd also agree with most people that Scotland would be the older brother. I REALLY want to see Scotland in Hetalia though ^_^
Sorry, this probably didn't help much. I wish I knew more history now ><;

Haha, no worries. Like I said, any input would be loved. ♥

B-but really? Scotland would never want to be part of the US. DDD: I guess that this just shows how some of our generation lack knowledge... *cries*

Lol, and I thought I was bad at geography ><;

A bit late, I know, but I thought I'd put in my two cents anyway. XD

I think of it as England, Scotland, Wales, and N. Ireland all live in one huge house, the UK. The house is pretty big so they're somewhat far away, but still close and unified.

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Queston Regarding Scotland

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