[Discussion] Austria & Hungary in 1848

[felinaofl2.livejournal.com]

Being a history major's even more fun with Hetalia, so I'm interested in seeing how the community will weigh in on this, especially the Austria/Hungary fans. Here's a basic [and I mean basic] summary of this topic:

The Hungarian Revolution of 1848 was an attempt to overthrow Hapsburg rule and have Hungary be its own nation-state, a common element of 19th century Europe. When the fighting broke out, the Austrian Emperor Franz Joseph I (yes, the one Austria mentions in Episode 6) implored Czar Nicolas I for assistance in crushing the rebellion. Austrian and Russian troops defeated the revolutionaries, and many of the Hungarian revolutionary leaders fled the country.

So, what do you think this would translate to in Hetalia, considering how Austria and Hungary are portrayed as a loving couple? (I had never even heard of this revolution until this semester, hence my curiosity.)

EDIT: Thanks for all the great responses! :D Discussions like this make me love the comm even more. The majority of responses seem to agree that Austria and Hungary had a spat over this, and Russia was called in to intervene. I really like how different (even if a little) your interpretations are of this event.

[Mods, please delete if this isn't allowed]

Comments

[arnold-grove.livejournal.com]

Ah, lover's spats~!

[felinaofl2.livejournal.com]

*snickers* I guess... until Russia's involved?

[That sentence + your icon = <3]

[radittz.livejournal.com]

There is no any perfect relationship between two neighbouring nations >>;
I'm curious about this part too, I've learn a lot about it during Polish history lessons(one of our national heroes fought on Hungary's side).

I remember that I read one very nice fanfiction about those events, but it was a long time ago...

[felinaofl2.livejournal.com]

What's funny is that this was a factor leading to the "marriage" of Austria & Hungary in 1867 and the double monarchy between the two.

History is so fun when you get into the meat of it. :)

This is SUCH a random comment but...

[snogginnoggin.livejournal.com]

I always seem to learn some thing when I read your comments. And your Italy icon totally has one of those "ACTUALLY, did you know...?" faces.

[misshedevary.livejournal.com]

Yep yep, Poland came to help Hungary :D

[soofichan.livejournal.com]

Unfortunately, I don't know as much as I would like to about Austrian/Hungarian history, even though I, too, am a history major. (and it is exceptionally fun with Hetalia) But I was under the impression/was sort of my headcanon, at least, that it was around 1867 when Austria and Hungary really "married". This was when Kaiser Franz-Josef and Kaiserin Elisabeth (or Sisi) were crowned King and Queen of Hungary, and the Austrian-Hungarian Dual Monarchy was created. So, I see it more as Hungary was a maid in Austria's house up until 1867, when they realised that they loved each other and got married. And then, wham! Austrian-Hungarian Empire!

This started out all historical and then just got sappy at the end. XD

[felinaofl2.livejournal.com]

So was this event Hungary refusing to work for Austria?

XD Oh sappiness. *highfives fellow major*

[ksiezniczka11.livejournal.com]

I actually doodled a comic about this when we went over it, though mine was focused more on Russia. (Russia came to Austria's aide fully expecting the favour returned. Austria was then a dick to Russia for the rest of the century. Just wait til you get to all them Balkan conflicts. Fun fun!)
I portrayed it more as Hungary herself was very angry at Austria but her people took it out of hand. She wasn't ready to leave him, she just wanted some of his more prickish haboits to change, but her citizens just made the whole thing escalate and... I dunno. I really don't. It's a good thoughtful question.

And eff yes history majors! I'm actually an anthropology major, but a history minor. HIGH FIVE!
And

[felinaofl2.livejournal.com]

Never snub Russia- you'll regret it. (Yeah, the tension between Russia & Austria over the Balkans is more the reason for WWI than anything to do with Germany.)

That sounds like a good idea, and somewhat in character. The thing that makes this a mess is Russia getting involved.

:D *high fives!*

[vysnia-cerasus.livejournal.com]

Well, the thing is with Austria/Hungary, we've yet to ever see the era in which they were actually "married", if I'm not mistaken. We've seen them before the union and before that revolution would happen, and then we've seen them after WWI and on after the dissolution of the union where they don't seem to hold grudges against each other.

So there is actually a lot of interpretation to be had about the union and the Hungarian Revolution for right now (until when/if Himaruya ever decides to draw it)! I think it's entirely possible that Hungary would've had qualms about him and want to assert herself, only for that to go wrong. I've seen criticisms about the pairing due to events like this and of course the sexism/gender roles debates in the series where it's been said that Hungary is much too dependent and loving of a housewife. So it'd be interesting to see this illustrated, except it could be said that since she lost, that proves her weakness and Austria was "putting her in place" (not my opinion, though, but I've seen how it can get around this fandom in places).

I think it'd definitely translate to a spat of some sort between the two. I'm not sure how canon his character notes are anymore, but those notes said that Hungary felt defiant of Austria's rule yet also harbored a yearning for him. It's just a shame we've yet to see more of her. I sometimes wonder what it would be like if Himaruya had gone with Hungary as a guy like his first intention, how the dynamics of the two would be and if this would've come into play for the strips. But I like the Hungary we have, just hope we get more of her, especially to see just how their union would be portrayed in a story.

[felinaofl2.livejournal.com]

Well, she wasn't exactly "weak" per se, because she had TWO nations against her. Also, ALL three of them were lagging far behind in terms of technology and politics compared to Western European nations like Britain, France and the German Empire.

"Putting her in her place" is the darker interpretation I think, especially since it conjures the image of Austria allowing Russia to brutally "punish" her while Austria turns a blind eye. I don't think that's what happened in Hetalia terms.

Hungary's a very fun character and does deserve to have more screentime in the strips.

[mccarthyism.livejournal.com]

I believe there's some notes that talk about Hungary's conflicted feelings for Austria. I tend to see it as how she has a crush on him but is put out by his refusal to let her have more autonomy - shoving her feelings to the side for the sake of her people.

The compromise is a way of working themselves out and getting married which, in turn, makes them fully realize their feelings for each other!



Or something along those lines, I'm really sketch in Hungarian history.

[popo-licious.livejournal.com]

Hungary: "You can wash your own damn dishes tonight!" D:< [Storms Off]

Honestly, I've wondered this myself for some time now. I took a European history class last semester and when I read about the revolution, I was a little surprised and felt like my OTP was a big, fat lie. XD True love doesn't fight like that! XD

I'm not really sure what this would add up to in Hetalia-land. In the big scheme of history, I would consider this a slightly more minor event (Though I might have a different outlook if I were Hungarian and/or Austrian--) and would probably write it into the storyline, if it were up to me, as a lover's spat or a brief altercation before a giant declaration of love, as opposed to a big blow-out between Roderich and Eli. XD Maybe it could also be viewed as Hungary having second thoughts about the impending marriage? Feeling smothered by the relationship until Austria talks some sense into her?

But... would all this make Russia a marriage councilor or something? *A*

[felinaofl2.livejournal.com]

XD You're the second to suggest that idea of Russia being a "counselor".

[lai-choi-san.livejournal.com]

I remember what an Hungarian said in a discussion, that Austria and Hungary as a loving couple didn t make any sense anyway.

[felinaofl2.livejournal.com]

After learning about this, it does seem weird.

[powderthefox.livejournal.com]

Certainly a fight of some sort. I see Hungary as a very enthusiastic soul, rebellious and expressive. I think she has feelings for Austria and that it's precisely those feelings that exacerbated her frustrations and caused her to get so out of hand. We're much more ready to overreact and over-express ourselves with those we love and are close with, Hungary even moreso with her sort of disposition.

I really wish there was more coverage of the relationship between Austria and Hungary... Their history would make for a very rich translation into Hetalia. I get a little bugged that they're always portrayed as such a loving couple, their history wasn't all love and peace. Austria did help Hungary develop as a nation, but there were still underlying problems between the two even during the peaceful times. Austria was always clearly the more dominant player of the two, not always to the pleasure of Hungary. By WWI it even seemed like Austria was looking to take complete authority over their union state, or at least was my impression. (I seriously think Austria had control/power issues for a lot of their time together)

Hungary herself actually has a pretty difficult and dark history. I haven't looked into it too deeply, but I think her history deserves a lot more coverage and exploration than it's given. (Our history classes just love to ignore eastern Europe, it seems. /sigh)

[yamikisara.livejournal.com]

this!

[inner-wings.livejournal.com]

I can't really see any kind of loving relationship between them until 1867 when they became one country. Before that, Austria really wasn't that nice to Hungary and Hungary didn't really like having to live under him. Thus, revolution. And then she called Poland over to help and things were going pretty well for her until Austria got Russia to jump in and it all fell apart. And Austria wasn't too kind after her revolution either.

But after all that? I can see them coming to a compromise and Hungary somewhat reluctantly agreeing to marry him. And then over time softening up more and more as they really got to know each other from living in close quarters peacefully. I dunno, I'm not a big fan of this ship and this is the only way I can make it work in my head.

[felinaofl2.livejournal.com]

I'm not a big fan either (I favor Prussia/Hungary XD), so that's why I'm curious about this event. I've always had trouble seeing them being a loving couple and having a romantic marriage.

[raschi.livejournal.com]

You know that has always bothered me as well. Austria was NOT nice to Hungary. The part in the character notes (conflicted emotions on Hungary's part) sums it up for her. But I don't like Austria's portrayal as some gentle, loving husband since that's simply not true.
He obviously could have treated her way worse but the 'marriage' was based on political calculations, not real fondness.

But I don't see them holding any grudges today, mainly because real life Austria and Hungary seem to like (like, not love!) each other just fine.

[miezen.livejournal.com]

As someone who ships Austria/Hungary like a madwoman, I have to say I'm disappointed in how little this event and similar ones get touched on in the series or in fanworks.

I see it as a lovers' spat that got pretty heavily out of control. The argument broke out, and Hungary, the stubborn free spirit that she is, just wouldn't drop it. It got to the point that Austria didn't think he could handle it on his own and asked for Russia's help. That solved the belligerence issue, but they didn't speak to each other for at least a few weeks. It does say in her character notes that she had mixed feelings about Austria. Part of her admired him while part of her resented him for taking control of her. I can see a lot of the revolutions and disputes between Austria and Hungary that took place in that time period as Hungary getting huffy about her position and going to extreme measures to show her dissatisfaction, then regretting it later. Not regretting that she did something, persay, but regretting how far she went to make her point (For example, at least one of those disputes ended in pan-to-crotch in my headcanon).

It could also be looked at as Hungary getting cold feet before the wedding and trying to sabotage the engagement. People do get really nervous before getting married sometimes, and it would be like Hungary to try something more extreme like that.

Either way, I'm not entirely sure what Russia's role would be in this. In the latter, he probably just acted as a counselor. It probably involved a hands-on demonstration of how being her own independent nation would not be adventitious that came off as more threatening than it was intended to be. In the former, I'm inclined to see it as him kind of looming and being all "You've hurt him quite a bit, you know. You should probably think over your actions before doing anything else, da?" idk, I don't agree with going to the dark extremities of interpretation for this sort of thing. Hetalia is a gag comic and I like it that way.

But yeah, all couples fight sometimes. I'm disappointed in how little this sort of thing gets looked at with this pairing especially. I like the cute, happy fluff fic just as much as anyone else, but there's more to any relationship than that. Sadly, the only fics I've ever seen that involve them fighting tend to come to the conclusion that Austria really isn't a good match for Hungary and vice versa and they proceed to pair her up with Prussia or pair Austria up with Germany or Switzerland or something. Fics where they fight but patch things up later are so rare. ;;.

[felinaofl2.livejournal.com]

Sounds like a pretty good interpretation, and I was hoping to coax a hardcore A/H into commenting. :)

[gisho.livejournal.com]

There is an AWESOME fanfic along these lines - "A Little More Spark" (http://djsoliloquy.livejournal.com/916.html#cutid1). It's more focused on Poland, but it does touch on the issue of severe political differences confliting with growing affection.

[felinaofl2.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the link!

[onepartofyou.livejournal.com]

Maybe Elizaveta was pissed coz she wasn't being allowed to draw naughty yaoi doujin lol...Seeing as the whole Hapsburg thing was when Roderich was technically "married" to Tonio ahah.

[felinaofl2.livejournal.com]

THIS. XD Obviously she was drawing yaoi of him and he disapproved.

Part 1 ^^"""

[yana125.livejournal.com]

First of all I have to say I have nothing against the ones who ship AusHun. I just simply don't like the ship because of the history behind it. But my philosophy is if you don't like something then don't read/watch it ^__^

And now the main topic:

In 1848 the Hungarian nobles didn't even think about a revolution. Because Hungary was under the Habsburg rules and didn't really have any rights. The nobles wanted to change these with reforms. But after they heard about the revolution in France and Austria the younger generation started a bloodless revolution in Buda and Pest too. With that Ferdinand I, even if he didn't want to, accepted the nobles' reform platforms. A new government formed and started to make there reforms come true.

During that time there was a big chance that Croatia and Hungary would attack each other. And on the background Austria collected allies who he would attack Hungary with. (during that time Franz Joseph I took Ferdinand's place) The breaking point was when Field Marshall Count Lamberg, who just became the controller of all armies in Hungary, was killed after he arrived to the capital. The Habsburgs gave his place to Jelačić. And with that the war between Austria and Hungary had begun.

With the help of Poland and Italy (but mainly Poland), Hungary won many battles. After the several victories Hungary declared total independence from the Habsburg Empire. After that Austria asked for help from Russia. Russia literally stabbed Hungary in the back. After the many defeats there were no meaning of fighting. After Russia joined Austria they became too stong and the Hungarians at the end surrendered near Világos on 13th August (I wouldn't be surprised if it was on Friday...).

Right after the fight ended the Austrians started the punishment. Haynau became the governor (1849-1851) and ordered the execution of 13 leaders of the Hungarian army in Arad (the 13 Martyrs of Arad, they were shoot in the head or hanged up) and the Prime minister Batthyány Lajos (was shoot in the head) in Pest (6th October - now a national holiday).

After Haynau came the Bach-era (1851-1859) (I don't know if it's a right translation...). Bach was an Austrian minister of foreign affairs. The Habsburgs' main goal was the final assimilation of Hungary on the Empire at that time. They made many arrangements at that time. These thing sometimes was good but these happened without the people's permission. Because of that the people couldn't see their country as their own. During the 1850s there were a lot of rebellions (even armed). During his visit to Hungary in 1852 Franz Joseph found out that every Hungarian hates him. One time they even wanted to kill him.

Because they had helped in 1849, the Russians asked for help from Austria in the Crimean War. Franz Joseph didn't want to help so the trust between Austria and Russia became distrust. In 1860 Austria lost Italy and the Bach-regime became bankrupt. Bach got the push and Franz Joseph promised the reforms to the Hungarians.

Part 2 ^^"""""

[yana125.livejournal.com]

(I wrote too much ^^"""")

The weakened Austria after the defeat in the Austro-Prussian War had to make an agreement with one of the countries in the Habsburg Empire. The candidates were Czechia (Bohemia and Moravia), Croatia and Hungary. At the same time Hungary still wanted reforms but with their state in the Empire they couldn't reach their goals. In the end (with a little help of Sisi) Austria choose Hungary (mainly because Hungary was an agrarian country and Austria didn't have any fields for cultivation).

Hungary's parliament became independent from Austia (except the foreign affairs and the military). Hungary had a copromise with Croatia too (Croatia's parliment became independent too between its borders). After this came a more or less peaceful 50 years where Hungary's economy grew more. But because the Hungarian military was in the hands of Austria, Hungary was forced to join WWI.

And a little about Sisi: Sisi loved and understood the Hungarians really much, because she knew how it felt to be a 'prisoner'. She really wanted to help them so she suggested Franz Joseph to choose Hungary (but maybe it's just a rumour). Sisi even had a plan with her still unborn youngest child. She wanted to give birth to the child in the Buda Castel so if it had been a boy (and if Rudolf had taken the place of his father on the Austrian throne), he would have become the king of Hungary and Hungary would finally become independent from Austria. But the child was a girl.

Sorry!!! End of History class ^^"""" I get a little carried away when it's about my countries history ^^"""""""

Oh, and the answer your question: To tell you the truth... Regarding the history I can't translate it to a 'funny Hetalia' story. I just can't imagine it...

Again: Sorry ^^"""""

Re: Part 2 ^^"""""

[raschi.livejournal.com]

Thanks, that was really interesting!

Now you made it even harder for me to see them as a happy couple which just had some 'cute' lover's quarrel.

mad fangirl trying her hardest to be unbiased and failing

[fudge-coco.livejournal.com]

In Canon Hetalia, it'd most likely just be handwaved. One, they mainly serve as "that het pairing" in the slash-filled canon and isn't likely to be probed depeer into; two, Himaruya's not one to touch on subjects like these, especially in the newer strips lately. Personally, though, I think of it as much more than just a lovers' spat, more like a full-on fight/rebellion. Yay love-hate relationships. Thing is, like mentioned above, we never really do get to see their interactions in this time frame. Maybe they really didn't get along then, and Himaruya just happened to pick a "safer" time frame in the strips they appear in, especially seeing how there's really no strip out there yet with the two of them as the focus. And didn't Austria mention something about relationships not always being so sweet in the Buon San Valentino strip? Head-canon says it's coming from deeper than just general advice. But then head-canon also says that the whole "loving couple" image is part of them trying to "keep up appearances", esp. for Austria and whatnot.

Re: mad fangirl trying her hardest to be unbiased and failing

[felinaofl2.livejournal.com]

"Keeping up appearances" is very Austria, and it's another reason why (even before I knew this) that I thought their marriage wasn't very loving. To me, it just seems more a formality than a true bond. I'm sure they're friends today, but I still find it hard to make them a loving couple.

[fearedeyepatch.livejournal.com]

What I also found interesting about this event (Because I just learned about it in my history class too) was that than Russia later was dealing with some problems and asked Austria to return the favor and Austria refused, which ended Russia and Austria's "Special relationship." I swear to god my teacher said special relationship and I nearly fell over trying not to laugh as a Hetalia fan. It was bad. :D

[konstantya.livejournal.com]

Erk! Late comment is late. OTL

I've been in the middle of writing a fic about this exact time period and events for more than a few months at this point, so...yeah. Lots of head-canon.

In general, I tend to see the relationship as very love/hate. If you look at the history, Hungary had oodles of uprisings even before 1848, so while I think she had a major (personal) crush on him (probably really beginning in the 1700s, but that's another time/discussion), 1848 was the last (political) straw, and she finally put her foot down and said, "This isn't worth it--I'm outie." And then Austria, who was having quite a trying time quelling his own rebellious urges (seriously--it wasn't just Hungarians who were looking for governmental reform), went a little too far when it came to putting down this particular revolution of hers, and severely damaged their relationship in the process. Later, Austria reluctantly agreed (read: was ordered) to marry to help his health (as Prussia had just recently kicked the shit out of him), Hungary was convinced to marry on the basis that it would benefit her people, and thus awkward!political!marriage happened, which eventually turned into happy!love!marriage. Which fell apart during WWI and resulted in their divorce and my smoker!Austria.

That's the short version anyway. For whatever reason, my head-canon actually has Austria being the one who's really in love, he just never lets it show because there are appearances to keep up, and it's not proper to have affairs with the secretary maid, and all that.

I guess I'm one of the weird ones in that I ship Austria/Hungary simply because the history says they shouldn't be a romantic, lovey-dovey couple. (I like my angsty, complicated relationships, what can I say?)

[mcsourface.livejournal.com]

Even later comment is even later. O_O
This post is like so fitting almost exactly with my headcanon perfectly.
And I just want to say that I agree and support this REALLY HARD.
And. Thank you for being here and sharing. <3

[misshedevary.livejournal.com]

Well there were a lot of comments about this interesting topic, so I can't say any unmentioned thing... but since I'm a Hungarian I won't be surprised if it were in the series or what... I mean 15 March is quite a big deal here (No school 8D)
I was thinking about it a lot and I don't want to write silly things but half of the country (Hungary) was loyal to the court and half of it...well...made the revolution...(by the way I'm a proud Austria-Hungary monarchy supporter and not even in hetalia)
So maybe maybe...it sounds ridiculous but I saw many fanarts about a male Hungary... maybe that one starts the revolution and not the loyal Hungary-chan >:T
/sorry for the bad English and senceless lines....OTL/

[olin-chan.livejournal.com]

Ah, didn't read through the whole stuff (and am late with the reply anyways). If you ever tell a Hungarian (be it animefan or not) about this Heta AusHun relationship, they will surely think you(/Himaruya/all the other fans) to be (-I'm sorry but that's the truth-) a moron.

I personally believe the way their relationship is depicted is humiliating for our nation. Nah, I'm not taking the series too seriously, but this sugar-coated lovey-dovey is just too much. Not even in the compromise period did the 2 nations really love each other, that was merely out of political/economical reasons.
Ppl also like to romanticise the post-iron curtain period, but since even my parents were greeted with lots of "Hungarians, don't steal" signs in Vienna, I think it's pretty understandable how I think this pairing is overrated.

Not like I have anything about Austrians or their country - in fact I really love it. But once you take history into account, they corny type of AusHun is just ridiculous.

Oh and please don't forget how Austria basically f*cked our country as punishment for the revolution - which is logical, actually. But since then, we could never really be friends with them

[evahlan.livejournal.com]

this! especially the after-revolution bloody-retribution on Austria's part. -__-

testveri magyarkent, koszonom h felhoztad ezt a reszet a sztorinak is. :)
nem ertem h miert vannak szereto parkent abrazolva..de hat ha mar valahogy legalabb szerepeljen Mo is ebben a mangaban.

...ok total nem tudom h erthetoen irtam-e, kora reggel van es meg jo par eloadasra kell ma mennem. ^^;