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hetalia2010-01-24 10:45 am
youshi-semenjyu.livejournal.com) wrote in hetalia2010-01-24 10:45 am
Nations, Moral Ambiguity, and World War II
Grüß Gott, Hetalia Fans!
This topic has been bothering me for a few days; I suppose I'm a bit more sensitive to it than I realized, so I am here asking for your opinion in order to perhaps find peace with my dilemma.
As we all know, a number of nations (Not just Nazi Germany) committed horrific atrocities to people during World War II.
Here, to save you from my wall of text-
What did the nations think of all this? Were they indifferent? Horrified but powerless to stop it? Any number of other reactions?
Germany, Austria, and Poland (and most likely Belgium, if not others, though they were occupied territories)had to deal with Hitler and his concentration camps, the ghettos, and, in Poland's case, the infamous Warsaw Ghetto, and his ethnic cleansing. The Kristallnact, the 'disappearing' of over six thousand people Hitler deemed undesirable, including Roma, mentally and physically handicapped, Jews, gypsies, and homosexuals.
US had to deal with the US Internment Camps for Japanese Americans, which though not as bad as the German concentration camps, were still rather abyssal. The dropping of two atomic bombs on civilian targets in Japan. Though it may have stopped the War in the Pacific Theatre, no one can tell me that it was not horrifying.
Japan and the Rape of Nanking. War is always horrible, but what the Japanese did during their invasion of China was a crime against humanity in and of itself.
Russia had to deal with Stalin and Stalin's own brand of political murder. It's said that Stalin killed more of his own people than Hitler ever killed during his Holocaust.
In the aftermath of the war, the Allies refused to administer enough aid to ethnic Germans, many of which were innocent of any wrongdoing, and were essentially being punished for being German. Thousands, if not millions, died because of lack of food, medical care, and other necessities. When the Vatican send aid to the Germans, the Allies REFUSED it and sent it back.
Here is my dilemma. Being a fan of Hetalia, and a fan of history, I would rather not think that my favorite countries condoned such actions, because naturally, we want to think the best of the characters we care about. I know that Germany mentions once about his crazy boss in a slightly negative manner. He even expresses minor regret when ordered to forcibly annex Austria in the Anschluss (as Italy begs him not to), but then he states that he has his orders to do so. So it's almost as though the leaders have some power over the nation, probably more so if the leader is extremely popular with the people. It's as though the nation HAS to obey their leader and the will of their people, regardless.
I would like to think that, especially for Germany and Austria, being nations and holding a great love for all things that are theirs (their people, cultures, etc), that they would be appalled by the treatment of everyone that they consider theirs. Jewish or Roma, they were still Austrian, they are still German. (Poland and Belgium just wanted Germany to get the hell out of their house, I'm sure.)
After a while, do you think even the nations grew tired of the warmongering and the increasingly bloody battles and realized that, at least for the Axis' part, the battle was fruitless?
But do you think about this? Insights? Similar dilemmas?
BONUS QUESTION:
If the health of a nation depends on the life and vitality of its people and culture and reflects that, do you think that things like the Holocaust would be reflected as a sickness? The larger the negative effects of war in the nation, the worst the wounds and the worst the illnesses?
EDIT:
I want to thank everyone who gave their input. I really do feel a bit better about all this thanks to the comments. (It also helps me work my way around RPS and such that deal with the time period!) ...I think I take things a little too seriously. XD
This topic has been bothering me for a few days; I suppose I'm a bit more sensitive to it than I realized, so I am here asking for your opinion in order to perhaps find peace with my dilemma.
As we all know, a number of nations (Not just Nazi Germany) committed horrific atrocities to people during World War II.
Here, to save you from my wall of text-
What did the nations think of all this? Were they indifferent? Horrified but powerless to stop it? Any number of other reactions?
Germany, Austria, and Poland (and most likely Belgium, if not others, though they were occupied territories)had to deal with Hitler and his concentration camps, the ghettos, and, in Poland's case, the infamous Warsaw Ghetto, and his ethnic cleansing. The Kristallnact, the 'disappearing' of over six thousand people Hitler deemed undesirable, including Roma, mentally and physically handicapped, Jews, gypsies, and homosexuals.
US had to deal with the US Internment Camps for Japanese Americans, which though not as bad as the German concentration camps, were still rather abyssal. The dropping of two atomic bombs on civilian targets in Japan. Though it may have stopped the War in the Pacific Theatre, no one can tell me that it was not horrifying.
Japan and the Rape of Nanking. War is always horrible, but what the Japanese did during their invasion of China was a crime against humanity in and of itself.
Russia had to deal with Stalin and Stalin's own brand of political murder. It's said that Stalin killed more of his own people than Hitler ever killed during his Holocaust.
In the aftermath of the war, the Allies refused to administer enough aid to ethnic Germans, many of which were innocent of any wrongdoing, and were essentially being punished for being German. Thousands, if not millions, died because of lack of food, medical care, and other necessities. When the Vatican send aid to the Germans, the Allies REFUSED it and sent it back.
Here is my dilemma. Being a fan of Hetalia, and a fan of history, I would rather not think that my favorite countries condoned such actions, because naturally, we want to think the best of the characters we care about. I know that Germany mentions once about his crazy boss in a slightly negative manner. He even expresses minor regret when ordered to forcibly annex Austria in the Anschluss (as Italy begs him not to), but then he states that he has his orders to do so. So it's almost as though the leaders have some power over the nation, probably more so if the leader is extremely popular with the people. It's as though the nation HAS to obey their leader and the will of their people, regardless.
I would like to think that, especially for Germany and Austria, being nations and holding a great love for all things that are theirs (their people, cultures, etc), that they would be appalled by the treatment of everyone that they consider theirs. Jewish or Roma, they were still Austrian, they are still German. (Poland and Belgium just wanted Germany to get the hell out of their house, I'm sure.)
After a while, do you think even the nations grew tired of the warmongering and the increasingly bloody battles and realized that, at least for the Axis' part, the battle was fruitless?
But do you think about this? Insights? Similar dilemmas?
BONUS QUESTION:
If the health of a nation depends on the life and vitality of its people and culture and reflects that, do you think that things like the Holocaust would be reflected as a sickness? The larger the negative effects of war in the nation, the worst the wounds and the worst the illnesses?
EDIT:
I want to thank everyone who gave their input. I really do feel a bit better about all this thanks to the comments. (It also helps me work my way around RPS and such that deal with the time period!) ...I think I take things a little too seriously. XD
Re: A rant.
wait. THERE ARE PEOPLE OUT THERE WHO HATE ITALY!?!?!? but...how is that possible?! he's so cute! and what do you mean by "the other side of the fandom" and racist?
Re: A rant.
This happens with Italy, with a few fans that racist morons to begin with...and that also feel that he's coming between Germany's "true love" for Prussia. There was even an anti-Italy community made for racist anti-Italy/Italian rants a while back, but it went under when one of the mods began letting people in and they decided to vacate the comm to make it look like they were "hacked", though people provided evidence that showed otherwise (like them willfully making random people mods). Just really silly rubbish :P
Re: A rant.
...i actually hate prussiaxgermany...-3- sorry if you like it, i just don't...oh well...each for his own, no?
yea..."anti-whatever" communites just bug me. i mean, they have the right to exist, so i don't usually complain about them, but...yea. just italy tho? or do they have other "anti-whatever country" communities as well?
ehehe~you said rubbish....*is easily amused*
Re: A rant.
As far as I know, there aren't any other Hetalia character/nation hate communities. Seems Italy was just the (un)lucky one right there. The irony is when people go all "SO-AND-SO DID HORRIBLE THINGS IN HISTORY" yet they defend/support other characters that represent countries that ALSO historically did "bad things" too. Yet they try to justify it since they're their "favorites", while make the hated ones out to be the worst, heh.
Re: A rant.
really? but italy's usually seen as the least "evil" of the axis...i'm sorry, but what country HASN'T done something terrible in it's past? (sealand is not a country) *lesigh* i kno...my personal fav. is america, but i won't deny we've done some terrible things like, oh, i don't kno, INVADE THE WRONG COUNTRY. srsly. how do you do that? oh well...-3-