hetalia | [mod post] Another Hello

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[mod post] Another Hello

Hello, everyone, this is your community moderator.[Poll #1217657][Poll #1217657]

And in case you're wondering, the human names of the nations are:

Turkey=Sadiq Adnan

Prussia=Gilbert Beilschmidt (aka: Gil)

Canada=Matthew Williams (also, his bear's name is Kumajirou)

Sealand=Peter Kirkland (nickname: Sea-kun)

Belarus=Natalia (I can't find her last name)

America=Alfred F. Jones (aka: Al)

UK=Arthur Kirkland (nickname: Iggy Iggy)

Germany=Ludwig (family name unknown)

Japan=Honda Kiku (or, in the west, Kiku Honda)

Italy (north)=Feliciano Vargas (nickname: Veneziano)

Italy (south)=Lovino Vargas (nickname: Romano)

Austria=Roderich Edelstein

Hungary=Elizabeth Héderváry

Spain=Antonio Fernandez Carriedo (nickname: Oyabun)

France=Francis Bonnefoy (nickname: Oniichan)

Switzerland=Vash Zwingli

Greece=Heracles Karpusi

Egypt=Gupta Muhammad Hassan

Russia=Ivan Braginsky

Lithuania=Toris Lolintis (thanks to

herbalriver)

Estonia=the closest I got was "Edward"

Lativa=Raivis Galante

Poland=Feliks Łukasiewicz

China=Wong Yao (Yao Wong in the west. Nickname: Nii-Nii/Aniki)

Korea=Im Yun Soo

Finland=Tino Väinämöinen

Sweden=Bernard Oxenstierna (nickname: Su-san)

Sweden and Finland's dog=Hana-tamago

For nations that don't have human names, their names are made to sound like nicknames. For instance, Hong Kong is currently known as Hon-kun or Hon-tan. Taiwan is Tai-chan, Cuba is Qba, etc...

If you have any questions or concerns, please leave a comment or send me an LJ message!

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If I'm not mistaken, Belarus' name is... Bela. That's what I saw in the Baccano/Hetalia crossover, though. And also from that video, Thoris' last name is Lolintis? .__.

Thanks for the poll and the mod post!

Her name, as the artist's blog lists it, is ナターリヤ（ナターシャ）・アルロフスカヤ, which is Natalia (Natasha), and I just have no idea of her last name O_o;;; Bela is the shortened version of Belarus, of course, when fans didn't know what her name would be.

Ah, that would make sense, thanks!

You're welcome.^^/

... Alrofskaya? That doesn't make sense O_O;

No prob~

I just wanted to point something out concerning Hungary's name. Now i don't know if it's like this on the Hetalia website or not, but in Hungary itself they also use the Eastern Naming Order and are the only to do so in Europe. So if we were going to be politically correct here her name would be Héderváry Elizabeth but Elizabeth Héderváry to the west.

I guess if it's like that on the original website than theres no need to change it, but the artist does seem to go through the trouble to be relatively accurate on many things [but it is Hetalia so not everything is].

It wasn't on the Hetalia site as far as I could see (and I went through all the old blog pages, too. Wah.)

So thank you for the information! I would have never known, and J-wiki had it the western way of first name-family name.

I definitely understand the concern. (Especially, being an English site, someone from the CIA or the United Nations might do something!)

The people names have to be in a prominent place, if you do want to enforce this, just so people don't get confused. (Took me a while to understand who was Alfred and Arthur, etc.) Also, keep this "Don't use nation names!" rule on the sidebars.

I hope that's useful.

That's a good point, and even if we don't enforce the rules, it would be interesting to have a reference post somewhere that is linked from the profile in case people get confused when other members use the human names, because I have seen in other communities where certain characters have number-like names (Reborn and Saiyuki come to mind) and new fans have no idea who 8 or 96 are.

Hehe. ^^v I come from the Samurai 7 world, and back when I was totally crazy about it enough to hunt through Japanese fanart sites, I also went through many numbers. Only a very basic knowledge of Japanese numbers helped me survive. ^^

Just put an extra link on the top, I suppose, with the pictures (icons), nation names, and people names. I guess that will do.

If ensuring that people won't get offended easily is the only reason for enforcing people names, then I don't think it's necessary to make everyone use them instead of the country names. If there are any legal issues then I understand, but I'm pretty sure Hetalia falls under the entertainment category (in the US, anyway--and while our government might be dumb they certainly aren't THAT dumb to not quickly realize that this is a work of fiction).

It was because I saw people using the country names that I got interested in Hetalia, because it was amusing even to see my own country act the way it does. I know this is the same for other people as well, and I haven't once seen someone get offended by the portrayal of their country.

Plus, it's taken me this long and I still haven't put faces to all the country names yet..hahaha T_T

But if I'm unaware that this is really a problem and not just a superstition, then by all means, don't let me stop you from enforcing this rule.

Edited 2008-07-04 16:32 (UTC)

(nods)

*nods*

I have yet to see people get offended just yet here, though there has been some offense taken before when I had posted scans on

scans_daily, and non-Hetalia fans have even gone as far as to really, REALLY complain about the portrayal of certain nations (the most common complaint I heard was how predominately MALE the cast was).

So I guess it's really a...us (Hetalia fans) versus them (non-Hetalia fans who get offended easily). It's more common in the JFen that people start screaming and being offensive, though the hope is that they'll turn away and not say much of anything if they come here?

(...I wonder if they took into consideration how predominately male WWII was.)

I really don't think we should start using the human names. It's so much more fun to refer to the characters by country name, because there's this moment of dissociation where you really think about the georgraphical country of France humping the US of A, and that always amuses the hell out of me.

I recognize the concerns, but I think there is some oversensitive political correctness at work here. I think if you look hard enough, people can take anything the wrong way. If I say I like piroshki, somebody out there will definitely take this to mean that I am a communist come to infiltrate their country and ruin the economy, and I've known people who react as if you were insulting/making fun of them when you tell them you think their country is lovely.

Long comment short, people will get their panties in a wad over anything. Hetalia was created for fun and lulz, not for everyone to cower in fear of incurring some nutso nationalist's wrath.

We can friendslock the community, but that would be a sad day.

*nods* I see what you mean, and it seems like a majority of the members in the community feel that way, too, because of the hilarious implications of the actual nations interacting as opposed to a representative character from each nation, which is what the human names do--it separates the character from the nation.

It really is true that people will get offended by anything, even if we try to make it politically correct--which Hetalia really isn't to begin with.

I really hope that we won't have to go that far, and so far there doesn't seem to be a necessity to do so.

Yeah, I'm really glad that most people agree, because Hetalia was about making fun of stereotypes to begin with - and for the countries I know, those I've been to, those whose people I met... I have to say that many of these stereotypes are, to some degree, hilariously correct.

Yeah, unfortunately. But I assume stumbling upon Hetalia by accident is nigh impossible - you probably won't run across it if you aren't a 4channer (heck, I didn't know it existed until a friend pimped the fandom to me), and if you're a 4channer and get offended at something like that... that's pretty damn funny. XD

On a totally unrelated note... completely independently, I more or less started my own Hetalia a few months back, before I knew this fandom existed. In the Guilty Gear game, all characters have a different nationality, and a friend and I took great pleasure in referring to them by country name and photoshopping maps together. Like this (http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj111/h3d0n1st1c/graceofgod.png). I am insanely amused by this coincidence.

... 'Iggy Iggy'? Wow, where did that nickname come from?

I think it's because England in japanese is "Igirisu"

Ah.

I wanna call him Ike.

Personally I don't see the problem with using country names- without them, doesn't it render the whole thing a bit moot? I probably wouldn't have understood it at all upon discovery without seeing the characters referred to by country names, since I can't read the Japanese official site, and would probably have just assumed it was a manga drama series and assumed it was fairly un-unique.
I don't really see how you could seriously be offended by it; to me it seems no more potentially offensive than any political satire show that deals with international topics and stereotypes... but I do come from the kind of hardnosed 4chan school of 'if you can't laugh at it then go play something safe elsewhere'. Though obviously I don't mean to disrespect the people opting to play it safe by omitting country names.
I think different culture comes into it too; what's acceptable behaviour and response to me, in the UK, might seem too brash or too conservative to people based in different areas. I don't know how political/historical humor is done in other cultures, but it can be very biting and borderline shocking here.I certainly don't think any authorities browsing would interpret it that seriously, of they'd be worried enough to bother interpreting it at all.

Newfag is very new and hopes she doesn't sound pompous and/or rambling here. I haven't been in a fandom discussion in a looooong time. :P

Yes, you brought up the same point that

mumumugen brought up, and it's a valid point. It appears quite a bit of the people who have replied to this post believe that using character names waters down the point of Hetalia.

What I wanted to take into consideration was of course the concerns of the other members by bringing this into light, hopefully have a bit of a vote, and then let the votes decide.

I think it's one of those situations where there isn't really a catch-all answer, you just have to do your own thing to a certain extent and respect what other people want. For example, I think it's best to keep the country names here, but if an individual wants to use human names in their post and keep that consistant in the replies, that should be a reasonable rule? It wouldn't take much to leave a little one-line at the top of one's post stating their preferance if it's very important to them. And if I was a Japanese-speaker and used the Japanese fansites it would be perfectly reasonable to have to abide by their rules in their sites. So maybe a half-and-half rule could be achieved?

I hope I didn't come across as mouthy or anything in my reply. I do worry about that a lot because it can be hard to judge tones of voice via text.
Oh, and thakyou for the formal hello to the newbies up there, which I missed last time around. :)

*nods* I guess so far we'll go with the usual routine of playing it safe and then hankering down when it really does seem to take a turn for the worst. If people want to use human names, it's all good--though for consistency and convenience's sakes, the tags are mainly nation.

Don't worry about it, and it really is hard to judge tones or even guess the body language/expression of the person over the internet.

^^/ Welcome again. I really do hope you enjoy this place.

I for one took interest in Hetalia because it was like a car crash. Quote the Producers: "It was shocking, outrageous, insulting... and I loved every minute of it!" It was countries boinking, nations romping about! World War II and its many harshnesses and cruelties reduced to a hilarious feast of shallow, perplexing depictions: it's a hilarious take on world history that is as offensive as it was disturbingly accurate. If there wasn't some truth to it, why would we be so tickled?

The core point of it isn't to be conservative or child-friendly; on the contrary, Hetalia fires the OTHER way, soldiers, it fires in the direction of "holy shit... but that's kind of true, somehow!" And the reason it doesn't isn't because it has generic blond bishies fumbling about, and certainly not because of the character design (Kitayume has talent, but there's something to be said about the fact that it takes practice to tell the nations apart) but because they are national personifications. If you remove the nation labels, you're one step closer to making it just a boring and senseless story of good-looking but otherwise common, run-of-the-mill hot men, fooling around, not to mention you're closer to missing the whole point.

I would have to add, anyway, that unless someone is going to get arrested for it, I put little care to censoring myself. There's way too much sensitivity going around these days, so it will come a point where the narrow scope of what is "unoffensive" will get so small, 99% of the content in the world will be tacitly banned, because goodness, you don't want to irk someone's fragile heart, now, do you?

I reinstate: this is a fandom about national personifications going at it. Don't try to be politically correct about it, because, in essence, Hetalia is politically incorrect.

I'll admit in a moment of self-humiliation that when I read some of the things in Hetalia, what drew me to it was the feeling of "oh my good lord, you are right, we do act like that!" And yes, Hetalia is, as mentioned in comments, a manga that is based on the nations and it's really the idea that these are nations personified rather than representatives of the nations at work. From what I have heard, that really is the reason why a lot of fans have flocked to this fandom.

(And really, some of the art is very sketchy and hard to tell them apart, yes. So many blonds!)

People can/do/and will get offended by everything no matter where they're from, and I wanted not only to respect the wishes of members who were afraid of consequences but also to see if there were members here who might already in a way feel a bit sensitive about the nations' names being used and would rather do the separation of characters-from-nations method of using the human names.

By no means am I saying that the intention of trying to avoid offending people is ignoble. I just said that it is simply impractical and potentially troublesome.

My suggestion is that you don't make a rule about it. The more strict or narrow a fandom becomes, the less fun it becomes. It would not be different to anime/manga/comic fandoms where wanking commences over what an ambiguously named character should be written as, in fiction. ("Koukyuu, Koukyou? Kokyo?" "ZOMG BETCH NO THAT'S NOT HOW IT GOES LOLOLOL.") Best is to caution people on their own and, if any individual offends, let it be a problem between the individual and the offended party. You might as well caution people that they wouldn't be offended if they didn't come looking for it, since nobody forces them to read or see the material.

It also tends to open doors to wanting more details, it seems. *sighs* Can't make them all happy...

Oh my, you're telling me. I remember a while ago there was even an infamous wank about...colours...of certain things. And it seems that the general consensus is to do it by means of free will, no strict rules, and proceed with caution, which is more than a lot friendlier than I was expecting this poll to turn out, to say the truth.

I guess if someone who's not a Hetalia fan does come in here starting things, I would have to ask the members to notify me immediately so that I can handle the problem as quickly as I can.

I think you shouldn't worry yourself too terribly. First of all, you're doing a good job here. (♥) You simply want to do the perfect job, which is what everyone does, but in this sort of case you are guaranteed that there will always be some troublemaker, or some rightfully sensitive individual showing up. One way or another, unless they threaten with a bomb or with guns, you're on the safe zone where you can afford to ignore them or remind them that they can just walk the other way and their lives will go on, just as ours will. It's a matter of tolerance.

I would have to agree on one thing: I've found the Hetalia community to be, all in all, pleasant and friendly. I remember I was surprised when some threads on 4chan turned out to be incredibly civile (considering the lawless and often brash nature of any 4chan conversation.) I think it should be a reassurance that we're actually dealing with mature people, who know how to do things with care and caution, so you don't have to worry about them too terribly. After all, consider this demographic fact: anyone who gets the Hetalia humor almost certainly knows their history, or is a history fan. That means they're: A. knowledgeable, and B. tolerant enough that they're able to take history humorously. These are very traits most fandoms would ENVY on their members.

Hi there! I've been lurking here for a couple of weeks now. This is a great comm, and I want to thank you for all that you do as the moderator. :D

I just have a small suggestion, unrelated to any of the points mentioned above: Perhaps it might be helpful to set up a more formal tagging system for the comm? I think it'd be a nice way to organize posts so that members can more easily find what they're interested in (e.g., news, icons, fanart, cosplay, etc.). I know some members have been tagging their posts on their own, but maybe everyone could be encouraged to start using tags?

Thank you for your support, I'm trying to do the best I can and taking opinions/suggestions as they come.

And your suggestion is a good one! It would definitely be a lot easier to navigate around what people would like to see. I would like to ask your opinion in this as well, though. Would you suggest that while making tags, we also start tagging nations? For instance, a tag that says: "fic, canada, america," would most likely be self-explanatory. Not particularly the pairing, because then it would get to be too much (and hopefully the labeling system would allow readers to see what they're getting into), but then at least members can search for their favourite nations?

I'm pretty sure it's impossible to "stumble upon" Hetalia. :D

Haha, yeah. Most people who would do that probably come from /cm/.

No, it's not. I came here because a new online friend learned about this from another online friend (who probably goes those /cm/'s), and she posted about it on her LJ. ^^v

On that point, what IS /cm/, anyhow? ^^;

/cm/ is one of 4chan's image boards, and stands for "Cute/Male." People generally post up fanart of bishounen characters from various anime and manga series. You can take a gander here (http://zip.4chan.org/cm/imgboard.html).

Ah. Thanks. ^^v

But that is exactly what I mean! I think Hetalia is a very "word of mouth" experience. People learn about it from friends, which is a little different from coming across it randomly while net surfing.

Good point. I wouldn't have known otherwise.

I think most of my thoughts have already been said before, I'd just like to make one thing clear.
The country not daring to use countries names with Hetalia is Japan, where they don't make fun of politics, their government or history in the same way people do in the west, if at all.
Still I doubt they're using the nicknames 'cause they're afraid of possible consequenses, in there they just don't make fun of things like that.

English forums/imageboards/livejournal are read by people who live in a Conan O'Brien Hates My Homeland -world, where more incorrect and insulting equals more fun. protip: see /b/

Hetalia is something that would be totally accteptable in tv in the west, so why not in a shady corner of the internet?
As long as we remain from putting Muhammads with bombs into newspapers, I'd say there's no problem.

Actually, we have several members here who are not from the western hemisphere of the world, and that's where their concern comes in, and I wanted to respect their wishes in addressing the issue and then casting a vote. If it goes that the majority of the community vies for nation names, then it's majority rules.

And while yes, it is mainly Japan that is not using the nation names, it's not only because of their education culture of not making fun (or, in certain cases, not even mentioning)of points in history/culture/politics. Also, this community has members who are not from the Conan O'Brien Hates My Homeland-world, and that's actually one of the members who expressed their concern. Who am I to say "well, it's okay in the west so I don't see why you're upset about it?"

(and really, just the image of Germany in his uniform with the Reich flag could rub someone the wrong way, no matter where. On another LiveJournal community, someone had already expressed discontent about Russia's portrayal, etc)

All hopes point to this community not to be "stumbled upon" by overly sensitive people like I have mentioned above, though.

Yes I'm aware of the members who, like you said, aren't from the western hemisphere, but I thought they wouldn't be members if they'd find Hetalia insulting... oh well.
With the comment 'bout western people I meant the ones who might accidentally come across Hetalia, and to be honest, I'm quite sure Hetalia would be one of the last (and maybe not least, but definitely not most either) incorrect things in this world to which you just bump into. Of course I'm not saying others than western people can't just bump into it, but if you browse sites like 4chan or even livejournal, you should know they _are_ mostly western sites, right?

Maybe it's just me, but how hard I ever try I just can't see the point in censoring a political satire so it won't be politically incorrect anymore. Or does someone actually like it only 'cause of the pretty boys?
And by saying that most of my thoughts have already been said before, I was especially referring to

mumumugen's reply, though I also understand

splintertalon's - and your - point, that you can't go telling people what they're allowed to get upset 'bout (though I still have no idea what they are doing in the Hetalia fandom if that's the case).
Anyway, didn't mean to RAGE, hope it didn't seem like it.

I was wondering, couldn't you make the community friends only? Maybe except the scanlations, since many people without a lj come here for those, but the other posts?

"I just can't see the point in censoring a political satire so it won't be politically incorrect anymore."
This is the issue I hold with the idea; once you censor a satire, it is no longer a satire. Especially in the case of something political. If you take out that element, it just becomes a story about people doing stuff that doesn't really make sense unless you're in on the joke.
But at the same time, like I said in my first post, I know internet drama, and I can see how over-the-top people can get about stuff they profess to like. Like with a lot of things in life, I don't think there's any catch-all strategy that will keep everyone happy.
I hope I'm coming across right, it's hard to communicate on serious topics online without gross abuse of emoticons and *narration*. The fact I got no direct response on my first post makes me paranoid I came over as unreadable. :/

"does someone actually like it only 'cause of the pretty boys?"
*got here inititally through /cm/, feels slightly guilty :P*

The fact I got no direct response on my first post makes me paranoid I came over as unreadable. :/

Nah, it was just me doing my usual "sandwiching method of replying," and then I was in dire need of food...so... XD; your comment was sandwiched.

I guess so far the feeling is that we're pretty much fine with using the nation names, though, so we're all good?

Ahhh yeah. I got to be less worried about talking to new people. X)

That looks like a very big consensus on the poll up there, yeah. Suggests a very interesting cultural difference, I think.
Productive and democratic discussion? On these here internets? It's a new one on me! ;p

This thread was actually really productive and civil, moreso than I was expecting (sorry, it's the internet by majority that's gotten me jaded...)

But definitely a real interesting look on culture feelings of acceptability. Hmmm new social experiment...?

Well, there's always the culture to consider--people in the east are stereotypically known to want to keep the harmony amongst the whole, so in a way their train of thought is: I like this stuff=>but it's offensive to others=>I'm not offended=>but "they" are=>I can't offend others, it'll upset the harmony of the whole. Fans in the east don't usually brandish themselves as "fans." (For instance, one would see those Myth bags in the west, but it's embarrassing to have those in the east, even other fans would look down upon those people.)

It's not really upsetting them as it is that they're afraid of upsetting the people around them, behind them, looking over their shoulders, perhaps.

On the subject of friends-only, I hope that will be a last resort if and when problems do actually arise.

Right now, we seem to be a bit under the non-fan radar.

I really don't think we should use the character names as a rule - I have nothing against using them, but I think the country names make it a lot more fun. It kind of makes me feel a little sad that the J-fen seems to dislike that Hetalia is getting a Western fandom - I don't know if it's paranoia that we'll be offended, or xenophobia (I really hope it's not the latter). I mean, even though Hetalia is trivializing things like war (which I can see how it might offend some people who don't exactly frequent 4chan), it's also not blatantly offensive, at least to my mind. Characters aren't portrayed with outrageous ethnic stereotypes or anything, and it doesn't even really take sides, but instead portrays every country/character as having both good and bad traits. I can definitely see where some Americans might be offended that it is AXIS POWERS Hetalia, but I for one am not (and my father fought in World War II, so that should say something!). I wish we could just make the J-fandom understand that we're not offended by this, and we like it just as much as they do.

...Egypt's name is Gupta? For real? This Egyptian is making a o.O face at the screen in RL, because that is definitely an Indian name (and a surname, at that). Muhammad Hassan sounds right, but I have no idea where or how they got Gupta. XD

...

...Sealand?

Is that like New Zealand, or...?

Nope, it's The Principality of Sealand. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principality_of_Sealand) An obnoxiously cute little kid who decided that he was free of UK. XD;

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[mod post] Another Hello

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