Question & Discussion: Is this character in the new Birz Vatican City?

[heyyl0.livejournal.com]

I don't know how much basis this has, but I can't help but notice that the old man character Italy talks to in the latest Comic Birz seems to fit the characterization Himaruya gave Vatican City a while back...


I posted this on Tumblr, but here's the longer argument.  Vatican City, even though he hasn't appeared in previous strips, has been described by Hima in the past as "existing in the Hetalia universe; he is described as an old man who lives near Italy, but is very bossy and considered to be an annoyance, which has caused him to be at odds with Italy." (Credit for this quote goes to the hetalia.wikia) Well, here are a few comics which involve the Vatican, and there's this old man: 



What struck me about this man was not only the fact that he fits Hima's description of Vatican City (grouchy, old man, spiteful), but that normally, if he were a pope, Himaruya would have more than likely pointed out his name for his significance, but he's not named here.  Not only that, he doesn't sound like an average member of the clergy; he often speaks like he has some control over Vatican City. But he's not dressed like a pope.



In this small bit, he acts more like a nation than a priest.



Lastly,it's also odd how this whole scenario happens right after the dialogue with the old man, almost connecting the two.



Maybe I'm reading far too much into this (and, really, this is just a theory I'm throwing out there), but I do feel there's reason to believe that the old man's Vatican City.  If so, he's a new canon nation!  What do you all think about this?

Comments

[tarafishes.livejournal.com]

What do you mean he uses "I" a lot? He doesn't use "I" at all, it's just pretty much linguistically impossible to translate the lack of use of pronouns from Japanese to English. In fact he says "Yeah, a little while ago, a letter from England's boss:" and he's not directly involved in it at all. That's just how it was translated, because the way I translated it just now is sort of. Weird in English due to being a direct translation.

(the "may the devil take him" line should probably be "damn him" or "curse him" or something like that, too, but that's unrelated.)

Also calling a place "hell" when it's crazy crowded or messy or things like that isn't uncommon. . . ? It isn't really odd at all, though I might pick "a disaster" or "really bad" as more of Italy dialogue, but Italy's also becoming more cool lately, Himaruya said, and he's full of surprises(and I'm only recently becoming acquainted with the original Japanese text anyway, so.)

He might be, yes, but until Himaruya says anything we don't exactly have confirmation. I wouldn't mind it(though I'd like him to have a curl to match the Italies! And maybe I was picturing an older-looking guy.) personally, but BUT I left my comment edit unfinished ahaha the jury's still out on this one, really. It's entirely possible, though.

[heyyl0.livejournal.com]

I do apologize for going off and reading too much into the translation; I'm not too familiar with Japanese, so...I fixed the wording.

But yes, I would love Vatican City to have a curl, too!

[rikkaidai-fuji.livejournal.com]

Ahaha, I saw plenty of such theory too
but I think he's more of...Italy's boss friend?
I think I'm taking this too deep but if he's Vatican, Chibitalia will most likely to use a bit of honorific names..?
At least I think he'd call his name
but then again, I could be wrong
everything will be about Hima's decision
unless we receive a solid YES from him, I guess we can't guess much

[heyyl0.livejournal.com]

Probably so (of course, we still have to see if Hima confirms this, but I think it would be pretty cool to have a new character).

[mizu-takishima.livejournal.com]

I do recall Himaruya saying that Vatican City would be an old man, so it's definitely possible. c:

But I personally wouldn't call it canon just yet, at least not until we see some character notes/references or something~

That's just my two cents though ^^

[boo-sagara.livejournal.com]

I also think there is a chance that this guy is Vatican City because I noticed all those things you mentioned!
But while we have no official comments from Himaruya, we can't say anything for sure...

[yamikisara.livejournal.com]

I guess since later on it shows statues from Vatican City stepping on England on the maps etc. it's pretty obvious that grandpa is Vatican City, right?

Because it's not like we'd need an explanation about Vatican City if it's "only" Italy's boss...

[tarafishes.livejournal.com]

But it's just a note on something Himaruya found interesting. He gives us those all the time to explain the joke. If he just left it at "make statues to spite him" and didn't include at least notes, we wouldn't know what he was talking about at all(without researching, that is) and it'd also be a pretty empty page without the doodle as example.

And he may just have wanted to talk about Vatican City or have been particularly interested in it and wanted to share his experience and stuff(or he visited sometime recently and was still pumped about it.) He also threw in the comic about the dogs but that doesn't mean it's particularly relevant to anything besides teaching us what he learned about dogs/cats/animals.

[yamikisara.livejournal.com]

I know, but that's all "what if's" just like what I said. The statues are in Vatican and that old guy said he was going to make the statues, so it still kinda make sense for me. Of course we have to wait for an official statement from Himaruya.

[tarafishes.livejournal.com]

Actually, you didn't say "what if" at all. In fact, you said "it's pretty obvious". . . .

Also, again, that's the translation. . .technically, it could have also been translated as "we have no other choice but to build statues" and it still could have been right. Just like I said in my comment, he never says "I" in the original text. In fact, what he says isn't "[I] have no other choice but to" but "since it's come to this"/"now that it's come to this"(and Italy repeats it to get him to continue.) The use of pronouns in Japanese is very limited.

[yukihiro826.livejournal.com]

Hmm... There is still a chance that guy can be the Vatican City, Well if he really is the Vatican. then that's two nations that is slash out of his list last 2011 XD

[disneyotaku.livejournal.com]

Hima did say that Vatican City is an old man who is "very bossy and considered to be an annoyance", but never really mentioned anything else of his appearance. Then again, this is Renaissance time, so it would make sense for Vatican City to look younger now than in modern time.

Back in that time, the pope had a high power over people and actually owned land, remember? So to me it is very possible for this to be Vatican City. But since this is younger Italy we're talking about, and the fact that Vatican City is a part of Italy, that's why he doesn't really talk to him very "proper" or whatever, because at the time they were on the same ground. I hope I'm making sense...
The other reason why I'm leaning towards that person being Vatican City is because he received a letter from England's boss, the King. The King sent a letter to the pope basically saying, as above, "I'm breaking off from you bunch of idiots!" He wanted to marry Ann and divorce Catherine (for a possible baby boy) and was highly upset that the pope wouldn't let him do that and had several arguments with him.

[lost-hitsu.livejournal.com]

Just a word from the translator, both me and jammerlea talked about this possibility (jammerlea rightly pointed out he is not dressed in the usual clothing everybody connects popes with), but ultimately decided not mentioning it and simply leaving it up to fan's interpretation. I can (fairly) safely say that nothing in the original Japanese text confirms or rejects the idea that it is Vatican, but after checking several Japanese blogs that all refer to him as "Some important person from Vatican/バチカンの偉い", I decided to leave things vague.

[jjblue1.livejournal.com]

Personally I hope it's not because, as I said many times, the early idea of Himaruya-san for Vatican City isn't really fitting for it for assorted reasons, historical and regarding the APH universe as well.

However there's a huge chance Himaruya wanted to use it anyway but, in order not to have problem with the real Vatican, he is not going to state the old man's identity and will let up to the fans to chose if he can be used to represent Vatican or not.

In short he might be Vatican but this might as well never be confirmed.