hetalia | [Discussion] Is HRE really Germany???

There's a big debate about it, but it's pretty much confirmed he is.

Is it really? Maybe I've missed something, but none of the "proof" I've seen seems definitive. :(

The Valentine's strips pretty definitive to me. As well as Himaruya saying there was a reason Ludwig didn't have a family name, and it's proven in history as well. :/ No offense to the people who say he isn't, but they're kinda fooling themselves. Everything points to Germany being HRE but since it hasn't been said in plain text that he is, they don't believe it. It's kinda the same thing with American Idol and Adam Lambert's sexuality issue. It was obvious he was, but since he didn't outright say he was for a while, people took the liberty to say he wasn't despite everything pointing to it.

I dunno, even if all signs are pointing to it, for me there's nothing concrete that says HRE definitely is Germany. Don't get me wrong, I so want HRE to be Germany, and I'd be one of the happiest fans here if it were actually true (which it does seem to be). At the same time though, I'm trying to keep an open mind about it--even the history behind the actual nation doesn't 100% prove anything (although yes, I admit, it is very suggestive).
It's for all these signs that I personally believe HRE = Germany, but I'm not going to say I'm positive about it when I honestly can't be. Like with Adam Lambert before he came out, even if it seemed obvious you couldn't be totally sure, know what I mean?

:/ At the same time, if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, sounds like a duck, it's a duck. You can be totally sure without someone confirming it.

Ugh there are so many arguments I could throw at that phrase LOL, but they'd all be totally irrelevant here.
Still though, I could dress up my little cousin in a really nice, fully-functioning duck suit and teach her how to waddle and quack, but that's not gonna mean she's a real duck. xD

My fundamental point is that we can speculate and believe based on the evidence, but Himaruya's in control of the truth here, not us. He has the final say on this issue, and he has yet to give it to us.

Have you read the Valentine's strips? It shows Ludwig having a memory of putting a flower in chibitalia's hair, and the hand putting it in his hair is dressed in HRE's outfit.

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it's him dude, that's what makes the story so romantic.

Haha, well I can't argue with that. It's the very reason why I love the HRE = Germany idea in the first place. ;u;
But it still doesn't prove anything LOL. *kicked*

I have, yes, but like I said, it's not concrete. Yes, it definitely screams to us "HRE! HRE! It has to be him!" because that's the most logical conclusion based on the context and what we can see (and for a lot of us, it's what we want to believe). But it's not as defining as if, say, we saw a pair of hands placing HRE's hat on Chibitalia's head instead of the flower.
..Actually even my example wouldn't necessarily prove anything lmao. But you can see my point, I hope?
Not to mention that last strip isn't necessarily a flashback, either, although it certainly seems that way. @_@

Haha honestly, at this point I'm just playing devil's advocate here.;;

Himaruya wants the fans to speculate about it, but always when he gives some kind of hint, it makes sense that they are the same person. When I speak about hints I refer to the Valentine strip or the fact that, if you look for Chibitalia/HRE strips on Himaruya site, they are under a italian/german flag link, not the HRE flag.

Oh God. *looks*

Half of the fandom will tell you he isn't, while the other half will tell you he is. Nothing is confirmed yet, but the fact that Ludwig doesn't have a family name, that he lost his memories and the end of the infamous Valentine's day comic seems to suggest he very well could be a grown up HRE...

I've read the Buon San Valentino strip. And Germany looks he remembered something about chibitalia... Hmmm

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Oh, I see

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banded together under Germania.

This is false, if taken word by word.

Germania was a people at its best. Never even close to a country, ever.

The historical territory "Germania" was just a term coined by good ole Julius, named after a single tribe and simply not caring that these people were anything but homogenous. That is why bringing up Germania in a series full of nation-tans is the dumbest idea ever to begin with, let alone how painfully inaccurate he is portrayed, but well...

Germanics themselves didn't even feel connected as people from the very beginnings; all the different tribes had partially extremely different habits and traditions, ranging from language to religion and one of their greatest hobby was killing each other off in wars.

Germania never banded together anyone. The war against the Roman Empire did, but this didn't turn them into the same or just even similar people either. (As a fun fact, now that most of the states in modern Germany are named after the ancient tribes - Saxony, Hessia, etc. - even modern Germany itself is pretty much the opposite of homogenous too.)

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Sorry to randomly butt in like this @_@ But what you said reminded me that in Hetalia, Nation-tans usually equal the people, not the nations/governments. (At least, that's what I heard and/or seem to have gathered from various community posts- which would make a lot of sense) So I guess if Germania were a people at best, his tan would still exist =3

No, it must be dozens, if not at some times hundreds of tans for a "Germania". A tan per tribe would be the most "correct" solution.

There's a whole debate dedicated to that topic lmao.

As it's been said, there's no real proof as of yet.. The best evidence of HRE = Germany we've been given is at the end of the Valentine's strips, and even that is very vague. Himaruya did promise at one point that HRE and Chibitalia would eventually get a happy ending, but god knows what that could mean.

Since there's no real evidence either way (yet), I like to believe that HRE = Germany anyway haha. But we'll see eventually, I suppose.

This has been discussed quite a lot of times in the comm, and nothing is really confirmed yet. :3

In the end, I think it all comes down to what you think/want, since I kind of doubt we'll ever know for sure. I myself believe that they are indeed the same person, but that's only my opinion and there's at least half of the fandom to contest it. :3

By historical facts it would be proven, as it is not called "Holy Roman Empire" but "Holy Roman Empire of German Nation". History teachers here are usually pretty anal about that, you can get your grade lowered if you use the "short term" which is also used in Hetalia, because, well, the Roman Empire IS something different than the HRE of German Nation for reasons. (But modern Germany didn't derive from HRE either, it's a long and complicated story...)

In the comic canon, nothing really is proven 100%, so I wouldn't even bother wasting my time searching for definite proof, although I personally think the hints are overwhelming.

Wow, Instantly I'm learning history! XD
Thank you very much! Some help me a lot with the info. Thanks!

There isn't too much in the way of canonical proof, but in terms of actual history, modern Germany occupies roughly the same area as the Holy Roman Empire. So assuming that the Hetalia characters are set apart from each other and identified by their territorial gains, logically, HRE and Germany would be the same characters. An example of another character that evolves like this is Gilbert. He begins, to my knowledge, as the State of the Teutonic Order, then becomes Prussia, and eventually, East Germany. (The last part might be fanon-only, but I'm just going to roll with it.) XD While the regional boundaries have shrunk considerably over time, the heart of the region is still mostly the same, and remains to be represented by Gilbert. As for the argument that Ludwig could be the descendant of a German state, I think that's getting too technical, and even so, the states, however loosely affiliated, were still grouped together under the rule of the Holy Roman Empire and the Emperor.

Does that make any sense? XD Maybe a map would help me explain this better. XD (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Holy_Roman_Empire_ca.1600.svg) As you can see, the large central region outlined in white is present day Germany, and the purple shading is the Holy Roman Empire. :3

_{(And feel free to correct me if my history is off.) XD}

It's like Popo Licious said the area that is Germany now is where HRE WAS. So really it should be no question you know?

Well... first I took it for given that it was Germany XD But then people said, "Aha, you belive in the HRE= Germany theory" and I was all like.. wtf "theory"? OwwwO
I think he is, why I took it for given was because the "german people" (I don't know what they're called in english but we call them "Germaner" in swedish >w<) and it was them who tried to create a new Rome, Holy Roman Empire, but didn't get Italy, the capital of old Rome, it was all kind of around the 400-500, and that poeple then created what today is Germany, that's what I've been told XDD Some people say that I'm confusing it with Germania, cos' it's actually what those people where, but a lot later even if it's still the germanian people :3 and that means two different persons in hetalia point of wiew cos' it's a totaly new era for hetalia characters OwwwO

But then it's Hetalia and it all depends on how Himaruya wants it XD But I think there are too many hints to be able to deny it XD

It's strongly hinted in the 'Buon San Valentino' strips that he is HRE due to the fact he had a memory of Chibitalia.

But for truth? We don't know. :T People say he is.....some say he isn't and that he's Hesse (which doesn't make sense, because that's would make it akin to America's states) so yeah. :T

It's been made pretty obvious that HRE = Germany, if, for no other reason, it's historically accurate.

Also, V-day strips. They win. x3

I believe HRE is Germany, but I'm not going to be 100% sure until Hidekaz comes out and says it.

And I find it amusing how people are having heated debates using detailed history facts over two anime characters. I'm not saying it's stupid, I just find it funny. I hope I don't offend anyone with this.

Germania - Holy Roman Empire - Germany

Just saying.

The First Reich: The Holy Roman Empire (800/962 - 1806)
The Second Reich: The German Empire (1871 - 1918)
The Third Reich: Nazi Germany (1933 - 1945)

History is on the HRE=Germany theory's side.

Of course, the Nazis were the ones who defined the Reichs...

I also agree HRE is Germany, the hints Himuraya gives in the valentine strip and how it excually plays really good in the story, says alot. Also historically has much ground to support the idea. It's really you who has to see the connections. There was a discussion on this matter a while ago, I still have the link: http://community.livejournal.com/hetalia/4280297.html?page=1&view=89450985#comments.

For me, I don't mind Germany = HRE, but if you look at the two characters and say "Oh they look alike, they must be the same person," it's a flawed assumption. If you look at the special cards that were sold, HRE and Germany do not even have the same eye color, but there features (and even there hair lines in some ways) resemble their predecessor Germania. Prussia as has some of the similar characteristics, but not as many (seeing as the Teutonic Knights did not originate from the Germanic regions they migrated to and stole from the Old Prussians, but did assimilate themselves into that culture).

And if you say that HRE became Germany, you forgot that the Holy Roman Empire was an Empire made up of multiple states. HRE had so many problems because those states were not united. And even after HRE fell, the German Confederation was created of states that did not see themselves as HRE and others who had not been part of HRE. HRE at more than one point in its history even had Austria as part of it, and was ruled by Austrian kings for centuries.

So while I do not mind the Holy Roman Empire being some child version of Germany, I will not say this is an automatic truth. There was even one strip that has since been removed where France basically told Italy that HRE was dead. So if Germany IS still in some way HRE, it's because so many of the states that made of HRE became part of the German Confenderation. Germany is a combination of many former Nations. He could just have memories from HRE because part of him IS HRE, but parts of him are others too.

Empire is not Land.
It's like Turkey, he was way bigger than today but he is still the same person.

Anyway. "There was even one strip that has since been removed where France basically told Italy that HRE was dead." ... France said he is "no more". That doesn't mean he is dead. ;3

Jesus, it's history, what is there to debate and wonder about..e_e;;;

http://mooeydooey.deviantart.com/art/SPOILER-ALERT-139918471 ..whatever

[Discussion] Is HRE really Germany???

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