hetalia | How human do you think the nation-tans are?

It is cannon that, at least according to Finland, There are super humans like America and Russia but the majority of us aren’t so different from normal people.
I don’t think there’s anything to gain by seeking out and capturing us…

They maybe near immortal and have vast knowledge from the life span but they have very human emotions.

Edited 2012-07-19 23:08 (UTC)

do you know the strip he said that in?

It was in the 2010 Christmas bloodbath.

Norway: …if you look closely, they’re all familiar faces. Doesn’ seem like there are any normal people here.

Finland: Hey you’re right… Why is it just us…? I wonder if there’s a special reason that it has to be us?
There are super humans like America and Russia but the majority of us aren’t so different from normal people. I don’t think there’s anything to gain by seeking out and capturing us…

Estonia: I personally think you and that person beside you can be classified as super humans…

http://www.hetarchive.net/scanlations/hetastreeeem/xmas20117.php

I'm with Estonia.

Norway is a magician and I've heard that Finland is supposed to be superstrong during winter.

X)

Maybe... or maybe he thinks so because he's a smaller country than them? Or maybe because they both tried to strangle parallel France...

In a comic about the micronations, it was revealed that Niko Niko went "back" to being a regular Japanese citizen. The author of Hetalia wrote in some notes that it would be "very difficult" for other nations to do the same. This has launched the theory that the nations were at one point regular people, and possibly go back to being that way if the country they represent is done with.

There's also Rome's nighttime meeting with Italy and Germany, which ends with him saying that he was glad that God let him go back to see his grandson. That would imply that nations that "die" go to heaven in some form.

Italy and Romano are the grandkids of Rome, Holy Roman Empire is the grandson of Germania, and Ancient Greece, Ancient Egypt, and Britannia are the mothers of Greece, Egypt, and Britain respectively. That would suggest that the children of nations are other nations themselves, or personify something. On the other hand, Britain just finds America and proclaims that they are brothers, so it could be that children and grandchildren work the same way - one nation just finds a child nation somewhere and proclaims them to be their child/grandchild.

I always treat them like they're human with this certain set of differences that then define them as nations incarnate. They don't necessarily know more though maybe they can feel their country if they're in touch with their people. They've probably been seriously injured in wars in the past but heal if their nation continues on, and I think there's the implication they can't have children since their children wouldn't be countries. They more sort of form families with others like them instead of becoming attached to mortal humans who live such short lives.

That's at least how I treat them in my stories.

"is it possible to kill one, for example, by a fatal stab wound?"

Well, Russia jumped out of a plane without a parachute, which could easily be fatal to a normal person. He survived, although he broke all of his bones. And Switzerland shot France in the head in the 2007 Christmas Bloodbath (http://www.hetarchive.net/scanlations/event.php?chrismas_bonsai). It knocked him down for a short period of time, but he was back on his feet soon enough.

So, no, I don't think it's possible to kill one of them with conventional methods. At least, I don't think the average person could do it. I seem to recall a strip where Finland said that Germany's boss (Hitler) would actually try to kill Germany if he didn't follow his orders, so it's possible that a nation's boss has the ability to kill them. However, I think it's only when the nation ceases to exist that the personification can die. How and when, I don't know. Obviously, Prussia is still around, even though his nation doesn't exist any more.

Himaruya did say that "Mr.The Republic of Nikko Nikko became normal Japanese and grows old like normal but it might be difficult for the usual countries to revert back to normal people." So it seems that at least some nations become normal people, which means that what would kill a normal person could then probably kill them or that they would eventually die of old age.

"Are they able to have children?"

From the 2007 April Fools Event (http://www.hetarchive.net/scanlations/event.php?fr_ohenji):

>> France-san, France-san.
I'm pregnant.
Without a doubt, the baby is yours.
Please acknowledge it.
This is definitely a product of France.
Please don't just put this aside like you do with your wine.

France: Wh-Who are you...?! Who?!
Are you Marianne?! Jennifer?!
I'm really sorry about that time...

But this was on April Fools, so...

"do they even interact with normal humans at all?"

We know that they interact with their bosses. Also, this comic (http://www.hetarchive.net/scanlations/nonlinear.php?vais) shows France interacting with normal people. We've also seen Italy flirt with normal girls on several occasions, and Germany directing troops and said troops freaking out that time he refused to drink beer. So I think it's safe to say that, yes, they do interact with regular people.

If the bosses have that ability I think it would make sense because it's general shown that the countries don't have much say in what happens during war times.

Edited 2012-07-20 01:38 (UTC)

It also makes sense given that the nations represent the country as a whole. A boss "killing" the nation could be akin to driving the nation to utter ruin.

OK. I found the strip (http://www.hetarchive.net/scanlations/main.php?04) where Finland and Germany were talking about his boss.

Looks like my memory is pretty bad. Finland actually said that Hitler would throw Germany in jail, not kill him. My bad.

But do those people actually know they are countries? We have seen humans get curious try to figure out exactly who/what they are.

That happened in a strip with France. I think someone linked to it already? It seems like some people know and others don't. The strip features soldiers so maybe it's on a need to know basis.

My head cannon says the info about nations is on a need to know basis,usually only the nations bosses and the highest government officials.

Yes, they seem to know that they are nations. The young man in "Though I may depart, you shall remain (http://www.hetarchive.net/scanlations/nonlinear.php?vais)" is confused at first, but he figures it out. Plus, his grandfather and superior officer both knew that France was a nation.

Grandpa used to work in Paris, and that's when he met France.

Isn't "France" a country?

Yes. Look here, it's the person next to 18 year-old grandpa.

See? He outright says that he knew that France was a nation.

Also, in these strips (http://www.hetarchive.net/scanlations/volumes.php?t01), the normal people all call Germany by his name. Why would they call him "Germany" if they didn't know who/what he was?

The average person walking down the street probably wouldn't know that they're nations, but there are at least some normal people who are aware of them.

Since other people have touched on the other questions you asked, I'll offer my thoughts on their level of mortality. I don't think that nations can be killed by injuring their human body. Here are a few cannon examples of injuries that the nations have sustained that would have been fatal to normal people:

-Russia's heart falls out of his chest. It is suggested that this is a regular occurance.
-France gets his brains blown out by Switzerland's gun during one of the old Christmas bloodbath events
-Turkey gets gored by one of Spain's bulls when Spain is trying to get him away from chibi!Romano
-Russia jumped out of an airplain with no parachute and stopped a moving tank with his bare hands
-England had his skull pierced by a falling star when Italy wished that England would go home with a headache
-England was shown with a V2 balistic missile sticking out of his skull before he decides that he will defeat Germany and Italy by curing them with black magic

Those are just a few that come to mind off the top of my head.

D: this sounds more gory than I remembered

I know, right? I'd never really thought about this before this question came up, but yeah. At least there isn't usually a whole lot of blood shown :/

my thoughts exactly... it made me think of Happy Tree Friends > < being Hetalia, what would generally be classified as violence is made a joke of.

Doesn't England get hit by a star and survives? So, no I don't think you can stab them to death.

Personally I think nations can't die at all unless their country is done. (exception is Prussia...) Since the nation-tan, is, well, representing his own country, technically I think that unless the nation itself is doomed, no matter how you try to kill them it won't work. It might harm them, sure, but killing is not possible.

Children? Definitely not. That would mean nations can have half nation, half humans? Or create a whole new nation?

Edited 2012-07-20 00:28 (UTC)

Disagree with the "They die when their country dies" statement. Prussia isn't an exception, he's just needed and hasn't decided to "move on" yet. It is mentioned he probably will at some point. Then again, HRE and Chibitalia were promised a happy ending. Hetalia is far from over.

Where did the strips mention that, about Prussia?

You won't find that in any strips. It was the Osoji (Cleaning Prussia) game. It stated that Prussia passed on a lot of traits and skills to Germany, "retired", and that he may eventually move on like the "others" (Referring to the other German states I'll imagine includes Hamburg, Württemberg, and so on).

I remember now! It's been awhile.

Speaking of which, I need to see if there are Hetalia fics on this...

Maybe they will linger sometime before moving on, but I do think that when their country is gone, eventually they will be too since then there will be no need of them in this world. (sad to think but T_____T) HRE and Chibitalia were? :O

Here's how I see it: The nations were never technically humans in the first place, since they weren't born normally and they sort of just... appeared when people started to settle an area. They would have an "adult" mind pretty fast even if their body was a child's, since they personify so many people and technically have the thoughts and feelings of a lot of people inside them. And all the normal humans would be slightly blurry to them, so they'd be able to tell if they saw another nation. It wouldn't really make sense for them to be able to be killed for good by a normal person--because if they were killed, then what would happen to the nation they represented? They would probably "die" and then come back an hour later. I'm guessing nations heal extremely fast. And no, they wouldn't be able to actually have children--once again, with them not technically being human, I don't think they would have functioning reproductive systems. And as for relationships with humans, I'm sure they're very capable of having friendships with them (like how England was really fond of Elizabeth I and France liked Jeanne D'Arc), but since humans live short lives compared to them, I don't think they would want to get attached to any of them. Except in extraordinary cases, like with Jeanne D'Arc and probably other martyrs. So any considerably close relationships would just have to be between countries.

And while I'm on the topic, there's this really sad doujinshi called 'To Be Human,' in which, when Italy is unified, Romano becomes the only true personification and Veneziano becomes a normal human. And I think that could very well happen with other nations when they're dissolved through political matters and not necessarily war--except somehow, Italy is still two people and Prussia is still immortal, against all odds. But Rome and Holy Roman Empire probably died all dramatically (though I and many others think Germany rose from HRE's ashes).

Also, another thing with nations not being quite human: I think nations don't ever completely die, since the legacy of their culture lasts through future nations. (Which is probably why North and South Italy still exist, as their cultures are considerably different, and Prussia and also a whole bunch of micronations exist.) But Rome sometimes comes back, and I think the even older ancients, like Mesopotamia and the other Ancient River Valley civilizations, occasionally flicker back into existence. Otherwise, though, I think there's a special place in heaven for them. Being a nation has got to be a huge burden, and after living through several hundred years through so many hardships, there's got to be a recompense.

:O That's interesting- so you mean that nations actually have spirits and are not just the embodiments of a country?

They ARE after all the spirit of a people, or the collective aspirations of a land. Or as some might say, an "imagined community."

No, what I mean is that they have individual spirits, like us, and not just a collection of people's thoughts and beliefs.

Yes, I think they do. All of the thoughts and beliefs of their people would weigh on them, and I think they would feel physical pain anytime there's some sort of disaster or a large amount of their people die all at once, but I figure that would all be alongside the spirit they have individually. Assuming that we're talking about a world where human personifications of nations actually exist, I feel like their existence would be some sort of supernatural occurrence that no one, not even them, would be able to explain.

Hmmm, a discussion on how human the Nations are?

*cracks knuckles, neck, and several other joints* Well, well.

I notice that everyone seems to more or less agree on certain points, but I personally have some... interesting ideas.

Strength

It's been established that America and Russia are really damn strong, but I think they're all pretty strong themselves. I mean, if push comes to shove, someone like, say, England, would be able to toss a horse and rider over their head. But that's most likely something that can be accomplished with training, while someone like America has to train to restrain themselves. (Although America tends to forget, as one can probably imagine.)

In general, they're a lot tougher than most humans, it's just that most of them don't show it/aren't aware of it.

Children

Exactly how fertile or infertile a Nation is can depend on a lot of factors, but it's usually tied to population growth and the actual fertility of their lands. It's possible for outside influences to cause an injury/scar which would render them unable to have children, but these can heal over time.

As for the actual children... well, I like to think it's a bit of a mixed bag; sometimes it's just an ordinary human child, sometimes it's a human kid with unusual abilities, and then there's that very rare chance that the kid turns out to be a Nation. That last one only happens when there's significant changes going on in the country that would somehow make the "old" Nation obsolete. The "unusual abilities" kind is usually the sort of kid who grows up to do extraordinary physical/mental feats, and would probably have been the people that mythological heroes were based on. The ordinary people probably live normal lives, do normal things, but somehow end up in positions where they end up seeing their "parents" more often than an average person, which can be anywhere from "working deep within the government" to "manager of the restaurant/bar/hotel the Nations all go to during and after meetings".

Incidentally, Nations can recognize their own children, but it doesn't work as well the other way around unless the child is a Nation themself.

Mortality

Well, this one's going to be kind of strange, but bear with me. First of all, I subscribe to the idea from Seven Little Killers that Nations can be rendered mortal by destroying their captital, (their "heart", as it were) at which point one can kill them by any way they please. If their capital isn't destroyed first, then they can't be killed. Simple as that.

Following that logic, it is possible to give them an injury that would be fatal for a normal person, and they might "die"... but then they kinda "wake up", the injury healing and ready to kick the ass of the guy who thought it'd be a good idea to try to kill them that day. This has led to situations such as back-alley muggings going very, very badly, a supposedly dead warrior suddenly jumping up and slaughtering the opposing army, and a disembodied head angrily demanding that their body come back and pick them up.

The other way for a Nation to die "for good" is if they reach a point where people no longer identify themselves as being part of that Nation. This is generally a very slow process, usually accompanied by a lingering illness. This is also an extremely complicated process - historically, there's usually a lot of factors involved in collapses of empires, so it makes sense that there would be a lot of factors going into a Nation's death.

However, this can be averted - if they find some way to keep going, such as representing a specific portion of the "new" country, not to mention if there's still people who identify themselves as being part of that Nation, or having them as part of their heritage, then they can more or less keep going.

Aaaaagh, sorry, that was longer than I thought it'd be.

Can countries have children? Putting aside that idea that countries were once human/can revert to being human, it doesn't seem likely that they can have children (as countries) the way humans can. There hasn't been much to suggest they can aside from that April Fool's joke with France.

It seems that usually those familial bonds are just established by the older countries. The countries can sense how they have some connection with a new country then they decide on what to call that relationship.

zelda_queen pretty much touched on this I just wanted to say it again because she only mentioned it briefly at the end.

Throwing this out there too, but does anyone else have thoughts that it's easier for some nations to identify as more human-like than other nations?

For example, in my head I think it's easier for America to feel more human than Canada. Long version short is Canada finds it hard to imagine himself as close to humans, where as America can think of there only being a slight difference between him and humans. So for America, kind of imagine it's like the difference between two dog species, but for Canada he thinks of the difference between nations and humans as more like the difference between wolves and dogs.

And I think I'm not making any sense sorry.

Ah, this pretty interesting. I think it also makes sense that America would feel that he's close to humans. Despite being super strong and such he's not good at reading the atmosphere so he'd just see himself as most everyone else anyway.
I need to give more thought to this.

Could be America, as one of the very youngest of the true nations,Has not the world weariness, excuse the pun, a country like England and especially China or Egypt would have.An older country might eventually start putting distance between humans and themselves because getting to involved is pointless and bittersweet.

Regarding the mortality of nation-tan, I think the country they represent has to fall and the people they represent no longer considering themselves members of that nationality before a nation-tan will die. The latter would explain why Prussia is still alive and kicking.

I think there are some differences between nation-tan/human sex and nation-tan/nation-tan sex. If a nation-tan and a human were to have sex, there is the same possibility of a child being conceived as if two humans were to have sex. However, I think the results would be similar to children of deities and mortals in Greek myth--though the child might have enhanced strength or intelligence, he or she would still be human. Now, if two nation-tan were to have sex, a child would not be born. Nation-tan don't physically give birth; they just sort of POP into existence and there are two ways this can happen. First, a population can split off into multiple populations due to spreading out, becoming isolated from each other, etc. Second, two populations can come in contact with one another and create a new population.

This is all speculation on my part, of course.

I wrote this long headcanon (http://sinousine.tumblr.com/post/14608269541/how-nations-are-made) about how nations are made.
Take it with a grain salt:

When two nations love each other very much, or when their bosses decide that They Should Be Together, they get married by annexation and/or alliance treaty.

A bridal bed is prepared, preferably with petals from their respective national flowers because flowers are the reproductive organs of plants and symbolize fertility in nation-speak. The prettier and more aromatic the flowers, the better, although I pity the nation who picks something like a rafflesia for a national flower.

Sometimes there’s a live band in the next room over playing patriotic music. Sometimes there’s an ol’ record player. Or one of those new-fangled stereo systems. Sometimes Taiwan is peeping under the bed to make sure the nations actually do it.

All mature nations possess long, feathery mating extensions, normally tucked away in their abdominal cavities when not in use. Nations consummate their relationships by reaching out with their long, cillia-covered mating extensions. They join their extensions together, staying stuck for several minutes (sometimes hours) as they exchange fluids. It is a very pleasurable act, and many nations mate for the sake of the release of reward chemicals.

Nations are beings that feed on the brain energy of patriotic individuals and come in several hundred mating types, much like fungi. Their human bodies are host bodies and any human sex traits are an evolutionary facade. However, usually one Nation is the carrier for the offspring produced from a mating. During the gestation period the carrier Nation’s body extends, the abdominal region gaining the shape of an hymnopteran’s hind segment.

Because this can reveal to human observers the true Nation nature of what would otherwise be another human, a pregnant Nation often goes into hiding, building a nest out of shredded newspapers, ethnic textile weavings, and the bones of conquered foes, and depending on its mate to bring it food and water. Sometimes, it has no choice because it was mated under terms of annexation.

A new Nation is nourished through the blood of innocents & martyrs, and patriotic fervor, ingested through its host parent. During this time the other parent may bring their mate fresh blood, or protect its mate during energy feeding at national parades and festivals.

After nine months, if all goes well, a cute widdle baby nation is born!

Somehow it's practically canon that Nations are human enough to have emotions, individual personalities and pass themselves off as regular people. Also, it's likewise that they're usually nigh-immortal (or have regenerating abilities) in that conventional weapons can't really kill them, even if at best they wind up unconscious...unless their countries are utterly defeated, wiped out from existence and/or their people no longer associate themselves with them. The last point sometimes involves, as some brought up, becoming a regular human being and aging as such, although it's possible that even that can be protracted depending on just how slow the "abandonment" is. On the other hand, Liechtenstein was shown to be on the verge of dying after World War I as her economy is literally driving her people to ruin and death.

As for dealing with humans, I always got the feeling from canon and fanon that most people don't really know who they really are. Sure, they might know them or even their "code names," but their true identities are known by some, namely high-ranking politicians, military personnel close to them and human friends trustworthy enough to "keep a secret." In other words, a need to know basis.

I'll just add that China was "recently" shown to be just as insanely strong as America and Russia...which makes sense in the current geopolitical arena. I wanted to throw that in because people tend to forget and it amuses me to think of interactions between those three titans in such very different states of maturity, restraint, goals and history.

I also think that the more democratic a government is, the less the nation is involved with his/her bosses. Except in America's case, where government action has shaped the country strongly in "recent" times (last 200 years) because he's very young. And also because of the huge patriotism of American people. On the other hand, European nations tend to ignore their leaders as best they can, because they've already been close to leaders when they were younger and it NEVER ENDS WELL. America probably still thinks that the leaders his people choose will be truly good and do well for the country, whereas Europeans have reached the cynical state where they expect the worst of them and go from there.

Someone above mentioned how close nations were to their people...I tend to think that France's been proved the closest to his own, which makes sense when regarding his history, and China strikes me as the most distan, for some reason.

Do you remember what was the event China is shown superstrong in?

I have a really long and complicated headcanon on this subject actually!

I believe that there’s two major parts to what we call a nation: the human part, and the nation part.

The human part is the body, the 'individuality' of the nation, and their human emotions and sensations. The body would be, for all intents and purposes, mortal. However, the nation half would keep the mind and body working, albeit at a strained pace, depending on the injury or wacky bodily grievance.

-If a nation was stabbed in the heart, I believe that as long as the nation (economy, politics, population) was somewhere around halfway stable the nation could just pull out the knife and be like 'bitch why'd you stab me'. Of course there are variances on the amount of pain and the hindrances produced by such a stabbing within that halfway stable state, but that’s the general idea. Under that line I think it’d definitely be cause for at least some medical attention and recovery time. Even if the country was officially dissolved, like for example that time in history when Poland wasn’t on any maps, the nation themselves would still live, just with either a death and then 'awakening' or a very slow or human-paced recovery rate. If the body is blown up, or burned more than halfway, or the head removed/destroyed then it would induce a death and the body would either rebuild itself or reform in anywhere really significant within their borders. I once read a fic (ongoing, called Snakeskins) where North Italy’s body is damaged to the point where his heart stops and he’s only ‘alive’ through sheer willpower. That's similar to what I have, but more like it is a comic I saw on tumblr where Prussia is in battle and he’s shot in the chest while standing next to a soldier of his. Gilbo says something like 'fuck, third time this week!' before seeing that the soldier was shocked and rather horrified and having an awfully theatrical performance of 'oh, the agony!!’ Very funny, and my headcanon exactly.

I don’t believe that harm to a nation's human body constitutes any damage on their people/land. The other way around is fair game though, so during the burning of Washington DC in the war of 1812 America would’ve had symptoms of smoke inhalation even if he was in like fucking Vermont. Also, he would have had burn wounds on his chest area.
The nation part is the spirit of the people, as well as all the history, culture, land, climate/everything that makes up the country. Since that’s obviously a big
thing, I think it’s channeled in a very diluted state through the human mind and body, allowing for near-immortality, long memory, easy adaptation to change, and all the other bits that come with being a nation, like super (to a point) senses/strength. If they wanted, or became emotionally or otherwise compromised enough, they can more fully channel this spirit, allowing for things like much stronger connection to their land and people (as well as economy), ability to move through space like seven league boots or if they're really into it, the tesseract (if you haven’t read a wrinkle in time, this’d be like having an ant on one end of a piece of cloth and folding up the cloth in the middle to remove the distance between the ant and the other end of the cloth). I’m a big fan of Avatar the Last Airbender, so think of it like the Avatar State, but with people and land and economy. If a nation was really concentrating, they could walk through a crowded city blind and not bump into a thing.

As for the fertility of a nation: No. I don’t believe a nation would be able to have children, though under certain circumstances they could have shared DNA to a member of their family, like Norway and Iceland (this bit is canon). However, I do believe that their bodies would mimic the motions of fertile humans (as in menstruation/production of semen), as they do have a connection to their people, most of whom would be fertile. If they were able to have children, I think the children would be fully human, and eventually age and die.

Now my carpal tunnel is acting up again and I have shit to do, so contact me on tumblr if you want my 'why Prussia isn’t dead' rant, or further clarification. I’d love to talk!

Link to my tumblr: http://a-seriously-difficult-task.tumblr.com/

How human do you think the nation-tans are?

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