hetalia | [Discussion] The Politics of the Nations?

Entry tags:

community: discussion

[Discussion] The Politics of the Nations?

I am well aware that this may cause some tension/conflicts, but am acting under the assumption that the majority of this fandom is mature enough to handle this discussion with poise. My question was sparked by the recent resurgence of the health bill that was passed in Congress. (Honestly, I thought it was dead, so this came as a total surprise to me)

What do you think the nation's stances are on political issues? Of course, since this was sparked by the recent healthcare movement, I'm particularly curious about America. (Though if you want to bring up any other issues feel free too) I have read many fics where America's all like "Oh yea! Healthcare for everyone!" But these have always seemed terribly biased. I assume that the majority of this fandom is rather liberal and does support healthcare, but you must remember; the people that oppose healtcare are still part of America.

Another issue that somewhat confuses me with the nations (again, especially America) is that of gay rights. Personally, I'm totally fine with gay rights. (It would be terribly awkward for me to be in this fandom if I weren't) but the idea that America would just be like "Oh, yea. Gay rights. I'm chill with that" when America is a hella christan nation just seems wrong. I know many of us have crafted Alfred's ideas and beliefs to match out own (I've been guilty of that. But I really try not to) but sometimes, I can't help but wonder. How can a nation as religious as America and that has such a proportion against gay rights just be fine with it?

I know many people have just used the idea that the nation believes whatever the majority of the people does, but in a nation like America, where the minority is still a large proportion of the country, does that really work? We can't just ignore the minority; it's still part of the nation. The people that oppose gay rights are still part of the nation, the people that oppose healthcare are still part of the nation, and honestly, they're a pretty big chunk of America. You really can't just ignore them. So how does Alfred deal with the two conflicting sides? Other issues I'm curious about are (in order from most interested to least):

Social Security
Allocation of Government funds
Abortion
The environment
International relations
Legalization of Drugs
Poverty

Also, don't give me your personal opinion on this matter. I'm just interested in what you think Alfred thinks. Not what you think. Does that make sense? Thanks for answering this, and remember; I'm assuming you're all mature enough to not act like name-calling five year olds. If you have an idea, support it with a valid argument, not just some random insults. ( I don't care who we're talking about, even if we somehow end up on the topic of Hitler or Pol Pot, or whoever NO NAME-CALLING) And if you have an issue you're interested in, feel free to bring it up. Thank you.

Threaded | Top-Level Comments Only

I think since everyone in the nation has their different opinions on each subject, the nations themselves have a unique opportunity, in that they have the option of actually seeing EVERYONE'S side, rather than being biased about one side or the other.

As for what they'd choose, though... I'm not sure. Maybe they support both sides, and just hope for the best for everyone.

Okay, I just have to post this and only this.

My headcannon! Of the entire thing:

America was banned from congress for the health care debates because he started yelling at and arguing with himself on the senate floor.

There we go. <3

I dunno; if you went purely by historical opinions the nations would be quivering balls of conflicted angst on like 99% of all issues.

And Hetalia is about generalizations, stereotypes, and characterizations of policy (so for instance, even though copyright law is hotly debated, America can still go over to China and take his theme park away)

Agreed. Sometimes we end up trying to make the characters too realistic but we forget they are meant to portray stereotypes for the most part. Sometimes we may even unintentionally force our opinions on a country if we happen to be a citizen of said country, and that is not really what Hetalia is about.

my own personal headcanon states that the nations as people (ex: not America, but Alfred as a person) will have their own opinions regarding the issues. In Alfred's case, he appears to be a very liberal guy personality-wise.

As for the people's influence, I think Alfred, despite his own opinions on a matter, will disregard what he truly feels and side with the majority because that's what he's obligated to do as a nation. That's why he was supportive (in my head) of both the Bush and Obama administration despite them being completely opposite

If the people's opinions do matter, than Alfred is probably able to see it from all sides and base his own opinion on that.

Now, about the health care debate, I'm a little iffy only because a lot of people are being fed the wrong information regarding that bill (ex: that the government will start to fund abortions and kill our grandmas ._.), so Alfred might have a different opinion just because he works so closely with the bill's actual contents

Anyway, I think this can relate to other nations as well. As for Germany, he may have felt differently about what was occuring during WWII, but then convinced himself that Nazism was right, which he now disagrees with. I mean, I can't see Germany fully supporting Nazism when another majority of his people were being killed, so I'm assuming he had his own opinion, and only convinced himself to side with the majority of his population

...And by extension, every country has probably been kicked from their legislative assembly a few times.

*tries to imagine England calling himself a sodding git while Parliament heaves a collective sigh before grabbing the straitjacket*

This.

i love you. and yes. i have to agree with that.

Thirding this. :D

My headcannon dictates that Alfred's personality was defined by who he was raised and where. Which, for the most part, I can't get Virginia out of mind. And the little bit that Arthur was there, he instilled some pretty conservative values in him. And then Alfred met the Founding Fathers (and there was an explosion of awesome). So, conservative childhood means conservative personality. That and like, 70% of Americans consider themselves right or center right.

So, I see Alfred as an optimistic, idealistic conservative libertarian.

pyrrhiccommedy did this "Ask America" thing on her journal (don't know if she still is) and a lot of these issues showed up. Her answers were as close to what I would think the anthropomorphic character of America would be. Which is, again, right of center.

With healthcare passing, I can imagine Alfred being kind of scared. The debates have never been about universal healthcare, or making a system that would lead to single payer. It's been about the span of government's control. Under the stipulations which it passed, and the fact that it expands government's role, or will lead to the expansion of government's power, would freak out the nation which produced the Federalist's Papers. Just. Sayin.

To answer your questions though (I'll try to be as contrite s possible):

-Social Security: Alfred thinks that it's a good idea, a wonderful idea, but the budget needs to be in the black so the nation can keep providing this service.

-Allocation of Government Funds: Oh boy, well, hmm...I tend to think of America as very idealistic. So, he thinks that we can pay for all the services that he provides, but at the same time, as a 19 year old kid (headcannon dictates, that though they may be 200 or so years old, Nations act according to their physical age), he doesn't really pay much attention to it/doesn't understand the trivalties of macroeconomics.

-Abortion: Hmm...well you caught me on a funny one. America believes that while it's legal, he hopes and prays that it is a service that isn't used. Christian Nation and country.

-The environment: who the hell wants to swim in dirty ponds or breath nasty air? No one. So, I think while Alfred is miffed with Al Gore, he wants to be clean. Considering that most of us in the 21st century are germaphobes compared to our grandparents, I would say Al needs things to be clean.

-International relations: this might be some of my personal bias slipping in, but I think Al Jones is still unused to being not only a superpower, but an interventionist superpower. I can just imagine him breaking down every once and a while saying, "what the hell am I doing?"

-Legalization of drugs: On the fence.

-Poverty: Alfred cares for the poor, always has always will. So, he gives often to charity (whatever money he can). Poverty is a problem that should be solved, if it can that would be the cynical economist in me, from the bottom up.

My headcannon dictates that all the Nations struggle between their humanness and their nationhood.

Hope that made sense?

yea...that's one thing i've really been wondering. i kinda liek to think of alfred as moderate...or i hurt my head thinking about this too hard. ;A;

hmm..that's kinda along the lines of what i was thinking, but then what about the minority? does he just ignore that?

the health care debate has been such a pain. ;A; i can see why alfred would support it; but then, i can also see why he would be somewhat hesitant to do so, even if he did know it's full contents. it's such a problem to deal with.

def. agree with you there. with nations liek germany or japan during that period, i believe that they, liek their population, was just brainwashed. only after everything had happened did they realize what they had done, and felt pretty bad about it.

XD i do realize that about hetalia, but i was just asking this for a fanfic i was planning...while i do love the cracky, fun side of hetalia, i think the fandom has really created a more serious side, and really liek exploring that side from time to time.

Seeing as how Hetalia stereotypes countries, it wouldn't be unfair to say the countries would think/act like how they are most widely stereotyped by the rest of the world.

I'm north of the border and I don't think I can speak for all Canadians, but there is a lot of stuff in our media and public opinion that think of Americans as your average Republican. For example, we like to make comments that criticize health care and gun issues in America. A fair amount of people believe even our most right leaning political parties seem like left leaning compared to Republicans in America.

That said Alfred, representing a stereotypical American, would probably be hating on the health care bill that was just passed. Maybe not so much as a Tea Party activist but he definitely doesn't like it and will argue against it, citing the nations founding values and such to back his case. There have been fanarts where he is portrayed as pretty chill with Obama but I think he actually is one of the ones watching Obama very carefully for any future slip-ups. Alfred likely doesn't mind gay rights too much, but he definitely doesn't support it especially on marriage issues. If a gay friend outed himself to him he might even try to do good by "converting" that gay friend thinking that being gay is just a deviant behaviour. Canon already portrays his love for guns so I think he must be pretty big on gun rights, and keeps a hand gun at home and sometimes one concealed when going out.

Again I hope I don't offend anyone, I know not all Americans are like how I described Alfred but that is what my version of a stereotypical American would be like.

Ahahahayes. x3

ahaha~no, it made perfect sense.

no, i can def. see where you're coming from. america, by tradition, is a conservative nation, so i just find it hard to believe it when people write fics for a totally liberal america...i do believe he has become more liberal (most of the world has) but i just find it hard to accept that he's thrown all his conservative views out the window.

and idealistic yes. i think that's one point everyone can agree on.

for healthcare scared as in "shit, i'm not sure but i'm going to do it anyways" or "no, i don't know. mebbe we shouldn't do this" or "I have no idea. leave me alone."?

XD poor alfred. he doesn't understand econ...mebbe he should go back to college, no? ahaha~that would make for a great fic.

yea..with IR, many americans have taken on that mindset lately, so i can def. see it with alfred.

the nations are nations, but they're also ppl to. so they def. struggle with that a lot (ex. hiroshima and nagasaki) it really would create a world of grief, no?

That's fair enough, but a lot of stereotype characterizations apply even when you're doing serious stuff. History shifts back and forth and doesn't really make a good plot. Current events are even worse because something new happens every day.

So you have three choices. You can stick with Hetalia characterizations, you can portray them as being conflicted and ambivalent until a policy decision is made (at which point you can assume the country follows the policy decision), or you can project any opinion you feel makes the fic work. The last can't escape being a political statement, but hey, technically so it goes with the first.

XD i live right on the canadian american border (literally 20 mins away from vancouver)!

ok...that being said...

no, i don't think you offended anyone. it's good to have the view of someone outside, no? health care has been such a pain in the ass lately. one minute, you think it's dead, and then bam! it's back. -3-

it's kinda funny when you say that actually, b/c the majority of americans associate themselves with the democratic party, and the majority support this new healthcare thing. the ones that are loud however, do not, and b/c of that, america has that stereotype.

ahaha~yea...about obama. he was horribly popular when first elected, but since he really hasn't done shit so far, i can def. see america's interest in him starting to wane. and that's a interesting take on gay rights.

well...we do spend hella money on the military. and yea. america def. has an obsession with guns. i'm not even going to deny that. (second amendment...)

again, don't worry about offending ppl. everyone has stereotypes (even of canadians...) so you should be fine.

but i just find it hard to accept that he's thrown all his conservative views out the window.
Which is weird, because I always feel like I'm going to get massacred if I write a relatively conservative piece. :\

Healthcare fear as in: "shit, maybe we shouldn't be doing this in the way that we did it."

Nations are people first. My headcannon is that all Nations are born and they go through the same trials and tribulations that regular babies, children and adults go through.

Haha, Alfred takes Macro Econ 101 and blood shoots out of his eyes. Keynesian economics...puh.

i kno. i've been thinking about it for a while, and it's really been a pain in the ass. oh well. thanks for the advice! :D

Out of curiosity, where did you get that "70% of Americans consider themselves right or center right"? All the polls I've seen, while having a conservative lead in most, have a strong moderate lead most of all.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/123854/conservatives-maintain-edge-top-ideological-group.aspx

*hugs* ahaha~really? i never see any conservative fics, which sometimes annoys me, b/c there are quite a few liberal ones out there...i mean, i'm not asking for fox news, just something that shows the other side of the argument, you kno?

XD ACTUALLY I TOTALLY AGREE WITH THAT LAST HEALTHCARE STATEMENT. THANK YOU.

i can def. see that...

ahaha~i tried to study that in AP gov...can't say i personally agree with everything he says, but hey. *shrugs* as my WHAP teacher said, "nobody cares what you thing"

Christian Nation...? were in the world does it say that. but most of what you say makes sense form a some peoples thinking. but i think that alfred as moderate is more of my style.

Hm, I'm going to back off what I said earlier a bit and say that while Hetalia characters are based on stereotypes, they shouldn't be the sole source of political opinions. This is partly because stereotypes of political opinions will vary from country to country. Therefore while America looks like a conservative country to a Canadian, the view from China or Japan will be quite different.

Hetalia partially avoids this by assembling characters from stereotypes, then having them act as characters. If you really must overanalyze, this is probably the safest way to do it.

Threaded | Top-Level Comments Only

Page 1 of 5

[Discussion] The Politics of the Nations?

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

^

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject